I’ve been thinking about your question this afternoon EchoKitty and I’ve been going around and around in my mind with different scenarios that would or could change my mind about God. The only thing I can think of right now is the possibility that if my good Christian friends and/or the pastor of my church and other Christians I know, suddenly came to me and said “We’ve been wrong all along”.
Now I’m not saying I would change my beliefs just because they have, but I would definately hear them out and investigate myself. Obviously they would have to have a very reasonable explanation with whatever proof they could muster up to not only make me change my mind, but all the other committed Christians out there.
Guinistasia, I much prefer to give the people themselves credit for all the good they do. To me, the spirit of some undead guy has nothing to do with it; people are basically good, and I’ve met some amazing folks, and I feel privileged to be a part of this race.
But crediting God with the good things people do, and letting him slide for the bad things that happen, seems insane to me.
MrVisible, did you even read my post? I know from previous experience you seem to just skim over and respond, but I think you missed the first sentence in the second paragraph.
Yes, dreamer, I read your whole post. Then reread it again, in gaping disbelief. You plainly state that no evidence, presented by itself, would sway you, and that only a combination of evidence and the consensus of those you consider good christians would make you reconsider your faith.
Am I wrong? Is this not what you intended to say?
You’ve given your will over, not to God, but to other people.
I said I would *hear them out and investigate myself * yes, of course. But not change my mind just because they did. The stuff I read here every day I admit, sometimes makes me think about my own faith and beliefs, which to tell you the truth only makes my faith in God stronger.
vanilla, I’d feel very sorry for those people; they’ve put themselves entirely under the control of other, fallible, human beings.
Oh, I don’t know. When I’m considering a difficult issue, I may provisionally give a greater weight to the opinions of those I respect more, unless or until I come across a conclusive or decisive argument.
Besides, dreamer merely put forward one scenerio by which she could imagine that she might change her mind. She didn’t claim (as far as I could tell) that this would be the only scenerio, merely one that she imagined.
MrVisible, if you have other scenarios in mind that you would like me to consider I have no problem doing that. The only thing being is that we will probably continue to go around in circles. If there was something that proved me to that I was wrong, yet didn’t prove to others with the same love and commitment for God that I have, then I really don’t know what I would do.
It seems to me that the most dangerous thing a person can do is give control over their thoughts to another person or persons, and to suspend their own judgement in favor of the others’ conclusions. It seems that the opinions of the group you’re in have at least as much weight as your own judgement as to what’s right and wrong. Doesn’t that scare you? People, after all, are fallible, corruptible, ultimately human beings. Why should you trust others with these decisions, which you yourself are more than capable of making?
Have you ever considered the possibility that your tendency to follow the flock, right or wrong, could be easily used to lead you astray?
Have you ever considered the possibility that your tendency to follow the flock, right or wrong, could be easily used to lead you astray?
That’s one risk. In opposition, there is the risk of arrogance, which admittedly can be cured by careful listening.
Theological problems are especially prone to generating divergent (yet valid) points of view. One classic example might be The Problem (or Trilemma) of Evil.
At the same time, a local (or global) majority may be, shall we say, conceptually misguided on matters of observable fact (as opposed to unobservables, where there are a range of defendable positions, IMHO).
Of course, where financing is involved, it is typically wise to set aside the sentiment and sharpen the pencils.
A third risk is that few evils are perpetrated without collaborators willing to conform to one or another group’s thinking. So remembering your core values (and distinguishing them from your peripheral ones) is typically a good idea.
I’m a bit surprised that only your Christian friends could be the ones to convince you that there is no god. Can you expand on that? You have many non-christian friends here on the SDMB who have provided solid, nearly indisputable (in my opinion) arguments against the existence of a god, yet you say it would have to come from other christians in order for it to carry any weight with you. I’d just like to hear a little more detail on that.
Yes, I would too.
I disagree with all my known christian fellows on politics.
As for religious beliefs, some folks believe in tongues and some don’t.
Its not the core matter though.
For me, I think it’d depend on how folks went. And knowing YhWh, tricksy fellow that He is, it wouldn’t be straightforward.
More likely, all Christians that He liked would find themselves stricken with a terrible disease that killed them over the course of a week. The disease would look like something that had been genetically engineered, and scientists would trace it back to a strain of bubonic plague that was developed by the Soviet Union.
Any god that’s willing to seed the ground with fossils to fool us about Creation isn’t going to make recognizing the Rapture easy.
Of course, if good Christians did suddenly start flying up toward the heavens, I’d think that something spiritual was going on, definitely. But it’d be so out of character for the god that fundies describe that I’d have a hard time attributing it to Him.
God HAS provided a way for everyone to be saved if they want. His name is Jesus Christ and He died for your sins. Only those who have trusted in Him as Saviour believing he shed His blood for them will be taken at the Rapture. It’s your choice whether to go or not. Free will. The plan of salvation has been put before you. You can either accept or not. It’s not automatic. Each person must accept Him personally as Saviour. John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but me me.
First let me re-state that I never said anyone would convince me, but I would hear them out and investigate.
All my non-Christian friends here on the SDMB, yes, there’s quite a few of them you know ;).
OK, the reason why it would take another Christian that I personally know to carry any weight is because I’ve seen their lives transformed by the power and love of God. I’ve seen who they were before and who they are know. I’ve spent years knowing them as friends and witnessing how they live their lives. My own life has been changed many times over and I know what it took for me to build the relationship I have with God and I know these people to be on the same road as I. If they had some new information I would sure as heck hear them out.
It’s kind of like if you were an alcoholic and you spent years attending AA classes and had a sponser who you became very close friends with and also made other life-long friendships, and then one day they all came to you and said “Hey, we found out this New 12 - step program that is really cool, but completely the opposite of what you’ve been taught all along.” Would you not at least give them the opportunity to tell you what it was? I mean you wouldn’t have to follow them and do it too, but I would assume you would at least hear them out. Or am I wrong?
