So Bone, if a store overcharges you for something, and you don’t challange it at the time, then they have no obligation to incur a single second of inconvienence to correct the situation?
I guess I don’t understand this attitude. People make mistakes all the time, it’s a fact of life. I don’t expect to profit from other’s mistakes, even if I did nothing wrong. It comes back to the fabric of society, which is made up of people agreeing to work within a fair and legal framework. While you didn’t do anything wrong, it is part of your obligation to a free and fair society to not exploit someone elses honest mistake in your favor.
The act of leaving the store wasn’t dishonest. But once the information has been brought to your attention, it becomes dishonest to do nothing about it.
Suppose someone stole something from you and sold it to a third person, who had no knowledge that it was stolen from you. When that third person finds out that it was stolen from you, should they feel obliged to contact anyone? Or, since they were not attempting to deceive or conceal anything, are they completely off the hook?
Oh yes, I agree I was responsible.
(I was so miserable when I came home after the crime that my parents immediately knew something was wrong and we spent a long time discussing the whole thing.)
My point is that now I’m in a responsible teaching position I don’t want my pupils to think this sort of thing is fine. In particular I don’t want them to tease and pressure honest kids.
Because there is nothing stronger than teenage peer pressure.
Zebra, how would you want your children to be taught?
D*mn, you’re good!
Yes, you are not stealing and you are being honest.
I have taken a bunch of pupils into a fast food restaurant (after a long school trip), had the wrong amount rung up, pointed out the correct amount (I’m good at mental arithmetic ) and been assured I was wrong.
The kids saw me trying to do the right thing, but they were tired and there was a queue behind us.
So I took the money.
I did mention it to the manager later, because they obviously needed better training.
So both of us had pointed out the mistake at the time, not just walked off with the goods.
Therefore I’m morally satisfied.
Oh, and I told the pupils that they should work hard and pass their exams, otherwise they would finish up in a job like that one.
I would not take the time to correct someone else’s mistake, especially if I notified them that the sodas were pointed out to them. What if the OP didn’t check their reciept, but just tossed it into the garbage? Should they be under obligation to verify that every single item they ever buy in their entire life has been rung up correctly? I never look at receipts, they go directly into the trash. I figure half the time mistakes will be in the store’s favor, half the time in mine, and it will all work out over the long run. Why should anyone have to take their time to correct the mistakes of someone else, especially when they made an effort to keep the other party from making a mistake? Do you know how much of a mess it’ll be at the store to try to pay for those sodas next time the OP shops there? The cashier will have no idea what the OP is talking about, and have to call over the head cashier, who will likely have no idea what to do, and just not care whether some sodas that don’t exist are paid for. Then the head cashier will have to call over the manager, who will spend 3 or 4 minutes playing with the register to ring up those two cases of soda. The whole ordeal will probably take 10 minutes, while the people behind in the line at the store will be getting mighty ticked. 10 minutes of my time is worth WAY more than a couple of cases of soda. I would think it is fair to bill the store for my time in correcting their mistake at the same rate I bill my clients.
No, the store does not. I assume that you receive a receipt for the purchase? The store is assuming, as is the customer, that the purchase happened correctly. It would be absurd to suggest that the store should attempt to correct a mistake that they have no immediate or definite knowledge of. I would not expect a store to routinely comb through its transaction records looking for immaterial errors that are unchallenged. If the customer (me in this case) were to bring to the attention of the store the error, then I would expect them to rectify it.
Unethical? Sure maybe. Dishonest? No. Maybe that’s just semantics, but I see a difference there.
glee wrote:
You can tell me about my dropped wallet, or not. You do not have an obligation to do so. If you have something better to do with your time, I would not expect someone to track me down to correct for my own mistake. That is essentially what you are suggesting. That because someone made a mistake, the beneficiary of that mistake is somehow obligated to take action. This is not a question of degrees. If someone can be obligated for something large, they can be obligated for something small. I just don’t feel that obligation.
To the folks who feel no obligation towards action when no mistake occured on your part, this isn’t an attack, but an honest question.
If you saw someone in trouble (drowning, car accident, mugging, abuse, etc) and you could help them without endangering your life, would you feel any obligation to take any action? Would it matter if the victim made a mistake or did nothing wrong?
It seems like if your philosophy applies to monetary concerns, it should also apply to health and welfare issues. If it does, I think it is ethically and morally bankrupt. If it doesn’t, why do you draw the line where you do?
I see you now agree that the OP made every effort to do the right thing and if I ever have kids I’ll teach them to do that as well but sometimes the world won’t let you do the right thing.
Or maybe the world is cutting you some slack, I don’t know.
If I had just thrown the receipt in the trash, then obviously I would be under no obligation to correct the mistake, because I wouldn’t be aware of it. And I certainly wasn’t checking the receipt to verify “every single item”. The store I talk about in the OP is not my regular grocery store; different stores have different policies on double coupons. I go to the store with a certain budget in mind, and keep mental track of how much I’m spending as I’m putting items in the cart. My bill seemed lower than I thought it should have been (something I didn’t examine while I was still in the store because I had a restless pre-schooler with me), so once I got home, I was checking the receipt to see if certain coupons had been doubled that my usual grocery store wouldn’t have doubled. While checking that, I realized that the sodas were not on the receipt. That certainly accounted for the total bill being less than I had anticipated. Once I knew exactly what the situation was, I couldn’t very well pretend that I didn’t know. Of course, the grocery store would have been none the wiser, but it would have made me very uncomfortable.
I like to look at the big picture. Losses like these, as well as intentional theft, is what stores call “shrinkage”. The more shrinkage a store has, the higher they have to make prices in order to compensate. So, essentially, if I don’t pay for the sodas, which I have the pleasure of consuming, then people who didn’t get the sodas have to pay for them. This contradicts the golden rule, which I try to live by.
I have done these things more times than I can count, and have even gone so far as to endanger my life to help others (pulling people from burning cars, swimming rescues in the ocean to name two)
This has nothing to do with what is being discussed IMHO.
Look I entered into a contract with Home Depot to buy some remodeling supplies. I brought a pile of stuff to the counter. The made me an offer (rang up the merchandise) and told me I could have all this stuff for $1123. I accepted their offer by writing them a check. Offer and acceptance = contract. I am under no obligation to ensure that they priced everything correctly, just as if I enter into a contract to buy a new house I am under no obligation to make sure that the contractor makes a profit on the construction of said house.
I do not go out of my way to conceal anything I am buying. I have on many occasions pointed out that I have left items in the cart. I always write down prices when I buy bulk items so that no one gets cheated. But at some point my responsibility ends. The question here is just where is that line. In my mind that line is I bring up the merchandise and present it for purchase. The merchant makes me an offer (rings up merchandise) “that will be $14.32 please”. At this point I am free to accept their offer (pay for the stuff) or make them a counter offer (excuse me, this item was marked on the shelf at 2 for $1.99, I think you charged me $4.00 each) or decline their offer completely (I forgot my wallet). If I make a counter offer they can then accept my counter (I’m sorry sir, let me adjust that price) or decline it (Sir that price is for the house brand, not the name brand) and we are back I can accept, counter offer, or decline.
As far as my children go, I have taught them to play fair and to not try to conceal anything when making a purchase. however if the merchant chooses to make a mistake in my favor, this is not their fault.
And I think you are missing the implications of what is being discussed. It goes beyond the simple transaction taking place. There’s a whole framework of actions and relationships that create our society. They rely on people not looking to take advantage of each other in every situation, but to work for the common good at times.
People make mistakes. Taking advantage of someone else’s mistake means that people will take advantage of yours.
And all that is beside the point of the OP. Even if you don’t take it on yourself to check their receipt (and I agree you are under no obligation to do so) once you become aware of the fact that you profitted from someone else’s mistake what do you do then? I feel that regardless of how you found out, once you do, you have to make a further effort to rectify the situation. It’s part of the framework that makes up society.
So let me ask you a question. When you go to the car dealer to buy a new car, do you pay the price on the sticker or do you haggle for a better deal? Do you take what is offered on your trade in or do you hold out for more money on the trade?
If you do either (or would do either) of these things, then how is this different from my attitude that I am not responsible for Home deopt making a profit?
The pop didn’t just mysteriously appear in her home after she got home with the groceries. She made the clerk aware of them and the clerk agreed that she would put them on the sales order.
Were a bank transaction to be similar an agreement between the bank and the customer would have first have to have taken place.
Also, the OP made an immediate attempt to rectify the situation by calling the manager.
A similar bank situation would have been the customer calling the bank and saying “hey! how’d this million get in here”?? And then the manager saying “eh, don’t worry about it, write it on a transfer slip and then take care of it the next time you’re in here”.
I agree. I had a similar experience too. At Costco. I’d bought a couple of little throw rugs (this was years ago) for my daughters bedroom.
When I got out to the car, I glanced at the receipt before putting it away, and discovered that they’d only charged me for one. So, I traipsed back into the darn store, found a manager and told him.
He points to this line with 20 people in it, and says “Oh, just go to that line they’ll take care of you”.
I just looked at him for a moment. Then I said, firmly but a little crankily “look, I didn’t have to be honest and come back in with this, figure out a way to get this taken care of immediately, or I’ll simply leave, and do my shopping at Sam’s from now on”. (I hadn’t brought the rugs back in, just the receipt).
But I do think it’s just a matter of degree. As Telemark says, we are all part of society. Just because someone makes a mistake (swimming too far out to sea/giving the wrong change) doesn’t mean we shouldn’t help.
What do you mean by ‘chooses to make a mistake’. Isn’t a mistake accidental by definition?
Accepting your premise: if your kids step into the road without looking, should I run them over? Of course not!
I’ve been very hard on individuals here, but this manager simply doesn’t know his job. :wally
Her we have a customer who has gone to some trouble, purely because he’s a decent person, to help the store. This will allow better training, but far more importantly here is a chance to encourage repeat custom - the lifeblood of commerce!
That manager should have worshipped the ground you stood on (only a slight exaggeration!). His reaction will be remembered by you (and might even be publicised on the Internet!).
He should have smiled, thanked you and offered not only to take care of it himself instantly, but dish out some credit note.
Matter of fact, let’s do the math to decide if the manager owed her thanks at all.
A case of coke here today cost me $5. Two for $10.
The margin for a grocery overall is 2%. or 20¢.
The manager’s time and the information desk’s time would be worth about (____ supply your own number- doesn’t affect the outcome.)
So, instead of helping his store, you were literally wasting his time. Sure, he should have said thanks out of common courtesy, but you weren’t really doing him any favors.
So it’s your assertion that I actually did the store a disservice by reporting the incident? Uh, whatever.
Well, I guess most of us are pretty stupid, then; good thing we have you here now, to point it out to us. I’ll try to wise up in the future, and just take what I can get. Oh, and I certainly appreciate your taking your precious time to point out to me what is and is not a moral decision. In the future, I will cosult you first.:rolleyes:
If by margin, you mean profit, they didn’t make .20 on the soda. What about the costs of the case? The money to Coke, the transportation, etc. The manager’s time is getting $10 for the store, not .20. He doesn’t just gain profit, he recovers costs. He is NOT having his time wasted. Let’s say the manager did all the work himself. Took 5 minutes. 1 /12 of an hour, times $10. They pay him $120/hour?
Okay, so some people say that I shouldn’t waste my time making sure every transaction is correct (and I’ve made clear that that isn’t what happened), and here comes an entirely opposing viewpoint. . .that I should, in fact, go to the trouble of figuring out the profit margin on the ill-obtained goods, figuring out what the manager makes, what the info desk people make, etc. and then do the math to figure out whether I am doing the store a disservice by being honest? Yeah, okay, I’ll take that approach next time. Seriously, the manager and info desk people are making the same amount of money per hour whether they’re dealing with this problem or another one. And if there aren’t enough problems, these folks may be out of a job altogether!
Why don’t you lurk a little while and get a feel for how this place works?
) and been assured I was wrong.