I think one would have to, simply as an ethical dilemma.
Because one can’t know.
Sure, maybe it costs you your life, and the lives of your family, and the other passengers.
But think of the cost if you don’t. With 9/11 behind us we can set a baseline of ~750 deaths per plane hijacked. So deciding to stay put (as a group) means you risk that number of lives on the ground.
Sure, maybe the plane could hit the capitol building and we’d be better off but what are the odds?
There comes situations where one must fight back simply to prove to evildoers that there is a RISK to commiting their acts.
Well, the part about dressing me in a straw hat, Ray-Ban shades, Bermuda shorts and Hawaiian shirt and having me lying next to the grave with my arms behind my head isn’t going to work if I’m incinerated in a plane crash and my remains are in a small cardboard box. But other than that, it’s all arranged.
By the way, I’ve opened a GQ thread asking any resident flyboys if it’s possible for a passenger to land a jetliner with just radioed instructions.
I’ll go over to the thread in a minute, but my sense is yes, with the right passenger. Wasn’t Kurt Russell in a movie a while back where he did that? He had previous flight experience though…
I’d be worried I couldn’t find the right channel on the flight radio.
I’d fight as well. I might not be the leader of the charge, but here’s the scenario as I would see it:
1 - risk mortal wounding by sharp instrument
2 - Have a sure-fire bet at crashing into something and dying that way
I would never be able to sit there and simply hope that they are mere asylum-seekers. For all we know, the 9/11 hijackers may have said that to the passengers to keep them from revolting.
Think about it, if the hijackers said “Don’t get out of your seats or we’ll kill you! We’re going to crash this thing into a tower and kill you and 750* more people!” wouldn’t that inspire more resistance from the passengers than “We’re going to fly to a non-extradition country and let you go…”
Judging from some of the posts here, I would say that the best bet for would-be terrorists would be to lie about their agenda so as to keep the passengers as unriled as possible. And I don’t think that they would consider themselves ethically bound not to lie.
Finally, I think fighting would be worth it simply as a deterrent. If the 9/11 hijackers thought that all of the passengers on all of the planes would have rather killed the hijackers and taken their chances trying to crash-land the plane, then they might not have employed that particularl tactic.
I’m looking for a cite, but I recall reading that on at least one of the flights, passengers mentioned that the hijackers had used mace or some other pepper spray in the front cabin.
So picture this…
They’ve got the element of surprise
They’ve got 5-10 guys armed with knives
They’ve specifically chosen flights with the fewest number of passengers
They have a favorable defensive position (i.e. close quarters, narrow aisles)
They’ve already killed a number of passengers
You can’t breathe at the front end of the plane, where you’ll need to fight
Does this alter the decision for anyone? I still think not, but given the way I picture it, it’s not some kind of clear cut coward or hero decision.
The big dog is still usually a better bet, all things being equal.
My point has nothing to do with flying and has everything to do with a persons demeaner. If a particular person can’t muster the courage to handle a high school bully or some drunk in a bar, all of a sudden they are going to take out an armed terrorist? I think not.
I certainly wouldn’t think they were the Polish National Polka Champions wanting to practice.
Quote:
Because I know everything.
It’s all about group dynamics. Why do you think people stand around when someone is getting mugged on a subway or whatver cliche scenario you prefer? Because they are insensitive dicks? No. It’s a confusing situation that people aren’t used to dealing with. People hesitate because they don’t know what they are even supposed to do. Seriously, what are you going to do with a bunch of screaming arabs brandishing Uzis or boxcutters or scemitars or whatever the hell they smuggled aboard? Jump out of your seat, say something like “the no breathing sign is ON motherfucker” and twist the guys head like Stephen Segal?
As GargoyleWB pointed out, a lot of people would jump in once the action starts and the passengers are committed to retaking the plane. Most people just don’t want to be the one loundmouth who starts things off only to get his head blown off as an example.
As I side note, I fly a lot and I secretly think that the new security procedures are not designed to screen for contraband so much as they are to get the passengers so fired up and angry before they get on the plane that they will tear apart the first person they think they could legally get away with.
msmith - My point is, you give too little faith to commoners who may or may not jump up and fight to possibly save a life. If you wouldn’t…fine. I would. No Biggy. I simply think cliches and referencing a high school bully are not appropriate in this thread. It’s life or death is it not?
From my past experience, I think I would probably freeze, to begin with. Given twenty seconds to realize what was happening and think about it, I’d do my best then, not to take a terrorist down, but to lead the attack. As msmith points out, nobody wants to be the first person out there, but once someone’s the first, it’s a lot easier to be the second. I’m a wimpy little guy, and hopefully if I went screaming and thrashing at a hijacker, the bigger folks would be galvanized into action.
Of course, I’d be frozen for twenty seconds to begin with, and by the time I’d worked it all out in my head, the whole thing might be over with anyway.
They’ll be breathing the same air I’ll be breathing. Unless they know some piss on your shirt and cover your face trick I’m not aware of, this point is probably moot.
Apples and oranges. You can’t run away at 40,000 feet.
I think in this day and age, the problem isn’t inactivity, just the opposite, the passengers beating the pulp out of the first guy who sneezes wrong.
Why not utter a catchphrase, you got nothing to lose. I don’t worry about Uzis or scemitars, I think the most realistic scenario now would be strong arm attack, no weapons.
Someone has to do it. If my family is on the line, and it comes do that, I’ll do it. I’d do anything I could to give my family a slim chance of survival.
That is something I have always thought about on a plane. Largley because I’m a bit claustrophobic, and It’s something to take my mind off the fact the are going to seal me in a metal tube. But even before 9/11 I would have the same routine as I got on the plane.
Measure out the location of my seat relative to the fire extinguisher. i figure it’s likely to be the best weapon on the plane. Not only a good club, it’s useful to blind someone. It would be much better in our hands than theirs if it’s close to me I would jump to it as soon as I saw shit going down.
I also watch what goes into the overhead bins around me. I try to get a fix on a good medium size hard-sided case at the edge of a bin with no blocking bags. A plane is a cramped fighting environment. I go about 270 pounds these days. I figure on a full bull rush holding the hard case infront at full arm extension, chest to neck high, There isn’t much a knife will do to stop it. And there is no way to get out of the way in the aisle. If he holds the knife and maintains his balance then you might be screwed, but I’m putting my money on both of us crashing into a pile. WIth the case blocking head and neck, I don’t put particularly good chances on a killing stab before I could knock him down.
It’s not macho rambo posteruing. I feel confident that the advantage of numbers the good guys have over the bad guys, plus the nature of the fighting and weapons involved, make it worth it to be the first guy to take action. If there is a gun present, or a bad ratio of High-jackers to healthy-looking guys in close proximity, then I would think really hard about a plan b. But particularly since 9/11 I’m not going to sit on my ass to let the plane be used as a weapon.
I’m pretty sure I’d be the one making alot of eye contact and trying to “rally the troops” so to speak. I doubt I’d have the guts to actually leap up and lead the attack, but I could certainly help to put some sort of strategy into place. I’d also be willing to curb stomp the bastard once someone else had subdued him. That’s all I got though, and if I had somehow managed to smuggle something that could be considered lethal (i.e. nail clippers, tooth scraper thingie, lighter and hairspray? I dunno), I’d definitely get it to someone who would be able to better utilize it. I’m not out to be hero, I’m just out to be alive when the plane hits the ground. I commend the rest of you though, especially the “I’ll be the first screaming down the aisle” crowd. I sure hope you guys are on my flight.
i am not american, don’t live in america, and don’t really know what i would actually do when the time comes. however, the tv news images that had long since been burned into memory tells me i would rather die fighting than tempt the possibility of sitting by while the plane i’m in is turned into a bloody missile.
I’ve heard plenty of people mention that when they get on a plane, they mentally think out this scenario. Many people in this country now have plans to jump any terrorists that try a hijacking. So I don’t think there’d be too much trouble finding someone to be the first to stand up and lead a group attack.
For myself, I’m in Shirley Ujest’s position. I’d have two small children with me, so I’d be grabbing them. DangerDad would fight, though (OK, I haven’t asked him, but he would).
It’s not that I don’t think someone would or would not. It’s just that I don’t necessarily beleive a lot of the macho BS I’m hearing from people. Talk’s easy. Maybe they would step up, maybe they wouldn’t. All I’m saying is that no one knows what they will do in such a situation until they are put into it.
It’s not an issue of bravery. One dude-yeah, a couple of guys can just tackle him like that shoe bomber. Half a dozen organized guys with weapons - I might want to formulate a plan or something before I just bum-rush the first guy I see.
Everyone thinks they will be the guy storming the machinegun nest on Normandy. No one gets off the boat and says “I’m going to crap my pants and hide behind some obstacle weeping like a girl until the bullets stop”.
