I need to let someone go for cause today. She has missed a dozen days since the beginning of the year, most last minute call ins and she has some other issues such as being late, excessive personal phone calls and internet surfing to the point her job suffers. She has been an employee for a little over a year.
I find it is much easier to fire someone while handing them a check. The few times over the years I had to let someone go that has been with me for a while, I have given them two weeks severance.
Usually I know if someone is not going to work out during the three months probation period and I don’t give severance in those cases. However, she did do very well for the first 8 months or so. Now this person seems to have decided she doesn’t care about the write ups and counseling to improve and is just waiting for the ex to fall.
Would you give her severance pay and if so, how much?
A friend’s brother recently had to fire one of his employees after several warnings. He decided not to pay her unemployment insurance. She raised a stink about it. Oh boy, did she ever raise a stink. She took him to court, harassed him, badmouthed him, and overall made his life a living hell. He ended up paying more to defend himself than he would have paying her. And he still ended up paying her, just to shut her up.
I’m not saying that you should, but how much would it be worth to you not to go through that?
As a matter of practice, most companies do not pay severance for termination with cause. Also, if you are fired for cause, you are not typically eligible to receive unemployment benefits. There are of course always exceptions. If you want the employee to sign some form of termination, i.e. agreeing that they will not sue the company etc., you can offer the severance in lieu of signing the dismisall waiver. This is also a common practice.
The few times I had to let a person go, it wasn’t for cause which is why I am conflicted as to whether or not to hand her a check. I will probably do it more because it is easier on both of us if she walks out with some money in her hand rather than just her tail between her legs.
I haven’t decided whether or not to fight unemployment if she applies for it. I do have a long and thorough paper trail but it is tough out there and I don’t want to see her and her child in ruin. (Even if it is her fault).
My reaction is that if she’s being fired for cause that no severance is in order. Of course it didn’t cross my mind that she might turn around and sue. Uggh.
May I please have her job? I would work very very hard, and am always on time.
Unless this person has some kind of real claim against your company (sounds doubtful), the only thing she’s likely to do is fight for unemployment insurance. Depending on your state, she’s likely to win that no matter the circumstances. The increase in your payments may not even be worth fighting that. Shooting from the hip I’d say no severance, just the final paycheck. Every case is different though. Do you have someone to escort her from the building? Have the big cardboard box ready.
I wouldn’t give her severance if she’s being fired for cause. That said, you seem to have set a precedent by offering other employees severance on termination (though it was termination without cause), so you’re in a bit of a tight spot, especially if she knows those employees received a check on their way out the door.
If you’re in an “employment at will” state, isn’t it unlikely that she’d sue? Well, maybe not unlikely to sue, but unlikely to find a lawyer who’d accept her as a client.
She’s not in a protected class, until slackers become protected.
As for unemployment, you’ll be asked why she was fired. If you respond truthfully, she might be denied UC. The only way to assure she’ll get UC is if you fail to respond at all (or lie and say you laid her off for lack of work), and that might get you in trouble with the UC folks.
The truth is always easiest in the long run. She was a bad employee. She doesn’t deserve severance. You fired her for cause and you can prove it.
If you ask her to sign something in lieu of suing you, that’ll just give her ammunition. “Oh! I could sue you? Kewl! Keep that severance, see you in court.” And you’d want your lawyer to review whatever she’d be signing – another expense.
If she’s being fired for cause, I wouldn’t give any severance. If she was trying her best, but just didn’t “get” what she was supposed to be doing, yeah, I’d probably give two weeks.
Another vote for nothing. She’s an adult. She was told what was expected and she chose not to comply. Too bad so sad. IMHO, you don’t owe her anything.
I agree that there shouldn’t be severance pay for employees fired for cause.
If you do decide to fight unemployment, could severance pay come back to bite you? It there’s a disagreement over whether she actually was fired for cause, this seems like something that could be interpreted in her favor.
I’m in the “no severance, fired for cause” category. Unless it was an employee who worked for you for a long time, was fine all along but had some recent stuff going on. Then I would cut some slack.
Most companies hold back a week or two when employees are first hired–so they don’t have to walk out with no money, you know?
In my state fired for cause will result in having a waiting period to collect unemployment but you’ll eventually get it. As far as I know anyway and probably especially during the current recession. There are not enough state employees to be checking and you file your application online.
I have had 125 resumes so far for this position. I thought the economy was getting better. Apparently not. What is sad is she was such a good employee in the beginning. Was so grateful for the opportunity, wrote notes of thanks, baked for her coworkers, etc. Some people simply can’t separate their home life from their work responsibilities.
Of course she cried which I hate. She claimed personal problems to explain her performance not understanding that personal problems isn’t an excuse to neglect what you are being paid for. Especially since she had already been told to cut the sh*t a few times.
I compromised and gave her a week severance. I still haven’t decided if I am going to write she was fired for cause when she files for UI. I am inclined to fight UI since I don’t want to be paying it for for someone who obviously had no respect for the company and her position in it.
