You are absolutely right. I deserve to relax in the sun, sip tropical drinks by the pool, and enjoy romantic moonlit walks on the beach with my lovely wife! I’m so pleased that you agree.
If you spend your life cowering under a blanky in your factory-stamped gated community in some red state strip-mall clone of a town, clutching your pistols and trembling like Barney Fife in deathly fear of *those *people, you deserve what you get.
There’s a back story to my “hell no, I won’t go,” I promise. I worked in Mexico as a journalist for three and a half years (Guadalajara), and I speak near-fluent Spanish. I understood more of what was happening around me than the average tourist and, trust me, I had plenty of near-misses.
In my three+ years there, I saw the violence escalate. My husband worked at a local hospital, and they were dealing with more and more shootings and stabbings, many of them random. Two staffers were shot in front of the ER. We now personally know a) two people who have been shot; b) three friends who were beaten up in random muggings; c) one foreign friend who was kidnapped and miraculously released alive after two days of extreme unpleasantness; and d) ex-pats who have been drugged, beaten or murdered in their home. These weren’t drug dealers.
I have personally frequented a neighborhood taco stand that was later sprayed with bullets in retaliation for god-knows-what, and that could have been me sitting there instead of the 23-year-old man that died.
Folks, I am not a risk taker and I have traveled a lot for work, but the absolute chaos and unpredictability in Mexico just got to me. It is the least law-abiding, most corrupt place I have lived, with incredible pollution and environmental devastation (just go look at the Rio Santiago). I’ve been in three frigging accidents in Mexico because the roads tend to be as lawless as the rest of the country.
We have Mexican friends who tell us that they are jealous that we got out and that they have changed their habits as a result of rising random violence. Authorities try to claim that every one of the 30,000 or so that have died in the past few years were involved with drugs, but it just is not true.
Anyone who had a good time on holiday? Good for you, and I’m glad you did, but I know of too many people whose time there went terribly wrong and I have enough gray hairs after my time there. I prefer better odds – yes, you can die anywhere, no matter how safe, but why push it by going to a place that is starting to rival the death count of Iraq? And yes, the violence is everywhere. You just might get lucky and not be there long enough to have it happen on your watch.
There are many other vacation destinations that deserve a chance. San Andres Island in Colombia is lovely, and has cleaned up their act. Granada, Nicaragua is pleasant and unique, Cuba still has low crime rates … the list goes on.
I’m glad you’re safe and happy, but I just want to point out that (a) Guadalajara is a large city with large city problems, and (b) your professions exposed both of you to a lot more of the types of things that most people would tend to want to avoid.
I lived in Mexico City for a year and a half (I’ve only been home less than two months), Guanajuato for a year, and Sonora for a year. Each of these areas has its problems, and they all have places that are best avoided, but the chances of being caught in a random crime if you’re street smart aren’t much worse than in Detroit. Heck, the worst thing my nephew’s ever been exposed to is having his iPods stolen from him at school (you know, where all the kids already have their own iPods).
Its interesting because my Mexican fiancee is not at all concerned with the goings-on. She is pretty familiar with areas that are relatively safe and areas that are dangerous. She and a group of young women traveled to Guadalajara and spent time in very non-touristy areas without any troubles. She’d like to go there for our honeymoon and is fluent enough to pass as a local in her native state.
Guess it depends on the part of Mexico.
I have lived in Guadalajara all of my life. Yes you will find violent crime here. Like any city of 6 million or more people. But it is nothing like the war zone you portray it to be. Fortunately our lives have been spared the unpleasantness that you experienced. And when one works in a hospital it isn’t surprising they see victims of violent crime. That is where they are treated.
I would like to hear specifics about the "expats who were drugged, beaten and murdered " in their homes during your brief stay. Those typically cause quite a scandal and I don’t recall seeing any mention on the news.
Here is the advisory issued in February by the US Consulate in Monterrey regarding travel to San Luis Potosi.
[QUOTE= US Consulate]
American citizens residing in, visiting, or traveling through the geographic area bordered by, and including, the central Mexican cities of San Luis Potosi, Zacatecas, Aguascalientes, Leon, Guanajuato, Dolores Hidalgo and San Miguel de Allende should maintain a heightened sense of alert while the Mexican government investigation into this incident continues. Americans in this area should monitor local news and information to stay informed about situations that could affect their security.
The U.S. Mission has instructed its employees and their families to defer travel to the State of San Luis Potosi, effective immediately. U.S. citizens should defer unnecessary travel to the State.
[/QUOTE]
Also, the alleged head of the Zetas in San Luis Potosi was just arrested in connection with the killing of the US ICE agent. This could portend a power struggle within the gang. Watch the news from there closely.
I think you are absolutely right about my job unfairly influencing my experience, but the question was “Would you go to Mexico now?” I personally wouldn’t, but I wouldn’t judge anyone who did or think they were crazy.
I’d also be careful of assuming that all crimes are in the news – journalists get pretty burned out after a while and a lot of crime in Mexico goes unreported. And my use of the word “expat” does not necessarily refer to Americans or Canadians, but foreigners in general. Those tend to make the news a lot less, and often blend in with the general population a lot more. Apologies: I meant drugged and beaten, or beaten and murdered, or drugged and murdered, or combinations thereof – I haven’t personally met the unlucky fellow that has had all three happen quite yet.
A British friend from DF, dual citizen, decently affluent family, very careful, was drugged and kidnapped from her rental home in Cancun while on holiday because she relaxed her guard and opened the door to what she thought were police. She was very lucky to be kidnapped by robbers and only mildly roughed up, as opposed to rapists/murderers, but the family is not talking about how they got her back. This is about a month and a half ago and went entirely unreported, like many kidnappings do when the victim comes back alive.
Alan Turnipseed was murdered in Chapala this January. Lots of extenuating circumstances there, but the man is still dead. In early 2009, a colleague who worked for the San Antonio Express in Monterrey received a phone call that he felt was threatening enough to make him pick up his wife and his dog and move to Panama a week later. Not a crime reporter, an innocuous business reporter.
Our taco stand across from IMSS clinic 178 was the one sprayed with bullets. Chapalita is NOT a rough neighborhood.
Nightclub attack, 5 foreigners dead: http://guadalajarareporter.com/news-mainmenu-82/guadalajara/28419-guadalajara-takes-stock-after-deadly-nightclub-attack.html. Again, good neighborhood, close to the tourist areas.
Seriously, don’t you get a bad vibe lately? You don’t think February 2011 was just a really violent month for Guadalajara? I mean, yes, there’s the usual city crime, but I really think the last year or so has seen a tremendous escalation. Do I just go to all the wrong places and know all the wrong people?? I swear I don’t hang out with drug dealers.
Yeah, but who goes on holiday to Detroit?! (Sorry, couldn’t resist)
As to your points a) and b): emphatic yes and yes again, and that’s why I speak only for myself. Probably the worst I’ve been exposed to is someone shooting at my car on the highway and leaving four bullet holes in the trunk. That was Mad Max enough for me, thank you – and no, it wasn’t night, and I wasn’t driving a fancy car (Nissan Tsuru). Plain vanilla robbery I can live with and am not even counting as crime. Shootings at neighborhood restaurants that I frequent? Not cool.
LOL. My company issued car was a full-sized, brand new SUV, and I’d sometimes feel nervous driving it certain places, and I always told myself that if I wanted to be perfectly safe, I should get a hold of a Tsuru!
I think recent experience of Mexico is more relevant since it seems things get more dangerous daily. I’ve been to Mexico many times and would absolutely not go there now. I lived in LA for over 30 years and never got shot at, but when someone tried to break into my apartment I dialled 911 and the cops were there in about 5 minutes. Would that happen for you in Mexico? The cops are not the good guys – if there are any cops. To me that’s the biggest issue. If you have a problem there, what do you do? I read a story in the LA Times a while back that still haunts me, about a man who was in a traffic accident in Mexico and died in a hospital without receiving any medical treatment because the police wanted money to pay for “bail” since the accident was supposedly his fault, and his wife had no money with her.
This post has more WINNING than Charlie Sheen.
There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between being attacked in Mexico City, Guanajato or Sonora, vs Detroit. People/tourists in Mexico are unarmed, defenseless, dont have any legitimate police force keeping order, and totally are at the mercy of criminals.
In** Detroit** any ordinary regular person can carry a handgun for self defense. Big Difference!
Detroit also has a police force that responds to 911.
Well of course Mexican cops don’t respond to the 911 calls. They’d take even longer to get to Detroit than the local guys…duh!
She doesn’t realize I’m from Detroit. I just don’t waste my time with Susanann.
While the effectiveness (or otherwise) of Mexico’s police forces is not irrelevant, it’s surely a side issue. As a visitor, you’re not really worried by how well the police respond to a violent incident; you’re worried about how likely a violent incident will occur in the first place. That is what the OP is asking about.
I seem to recall something to the effect that foreign drivers in Mexico are required by law to deposit money if they’re involved in a road accident; something to do with helping to protect Mexican citizens from people who subsequently leave the jurisdiction.
Since a foreign visitor to Detroit is not going to be carrying a handgun, your argument is meaningless.
Yeah, maybe so in regards to foreigners, but it still is a meaningful big difference for** American** visitors/tourists.
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I’d go almost anywhere in Mexico except Juarez. Hell, my Mexican clients don’t want ot go to Juarez - the only thing that makes them do it is that it’s the only U.S. consular post where U.S. immigrant visas are processed. I’m seriously wondering when the State Dept. is going to give up and move immigrant visa processing to another post, so people aren’t stuck waiting there for days or weeks.
Of course, I’m lucky enough that I got tear-gassed in Paris in the springtime once. 
Siberia? No problem. Paris? Tear gas and stolen camera. (I’ve been back to Paris twice since then, and it sure won’t stop me in the future.)
A classic case of misunderstanding. In cases of bodily injury, the driver that caused the accident must prove they can cover the costs of the injured persons. If they can’t, they can be detained. This applies to everyone, Mexican and foreigners alike. Insurance policies offer coverage for this. Insurance agents will see that their clients will not be detained. Unless it was due to criminal negligence. That is different but again the law applies to all drivers.
I’ll further add that if you’re in an accident, you call your insurance representative to the scene of the accident. The cops won’t haul you off until the insurance adjusters show up right there on the spot.
Also for foreigners (but not for Mexicans, for some reason), automobile insurance is dirt cheap. There’s no reason to ever drive your car in Mexico without buying a policy.