I’m not saying anything other than my three yo makes me crazy. There have been plenty of times when I’ve taken him out in a public place and he starts to run ahead of me, or decide he’s not coming. A trick I use is to tell him I’m going to leave without him and then pretend I’m actually doing it. He’s physically much more than I can handle if he decides to have a temper tantrum. If you don’t have kids shut up. If the guy punches the kid in the nose, call the police, otherwise, why the hell didn’t you offer to help if you saw he was struggling? If I had a nickel for all the times people just watched my screaming three yo running away at light speed, and then give me a dirty look like I’ve inturrupted their day…my best friend in the world was very opinionated about how I should dicipline my son(she thought I let him get away with everything) Then she had her own…And she has no more opinions. Leave the poor guy alone, he was probably at the end of his rope…in an office building no less! God when I think of all the things MY son would have gotten into…
A few years back when I was picking a quick bite at a Marks store in Ohio, I saw a woman in line slapping her child on the head hard. I told the woman. Her Husband/Boyfriend/Caveman was standing a few feet away. He got in my face a told me to F-off and mind my own business. I stepped back into my spot in line.
They got their food and left after glaring and making smart ass comments. I ordered my food and stayed to eat. After I scarfed my food I left. At the exit/entrance the Cavemanish fellow was waiting for me to leave. He took a swing at me and I sidestepped and grabbed his arm and hand. He fell. I ran. People do do dumb things sometimes.
Rev Bloodytoe
Err, I told the woman to stop. I have my own new born distracting me today. Sorry.
Well, zany280 I’m not the OP, but I’d be EXTREMELY hesitant to lay one finger on someone else’s child. I have hurried to open doors for children that I saw struggling to get them open, and done other things to help out kids that were in predicaments too. However, this was an 18 month old, and IMO that’s too young to use that “method” of training on. As I’ve stated NUMEROUS TIMES before. I AM NOT THE ORIGINAL POSTER of this thread. Also, as I’ve stated MANY times before, I suggested that the OP avabeth watch the person, to see if the behavior was an everyday occurance and go from there. I did suggest that she document what she saw, just in case it is an everyday thing. The issue that is being taken with this particular person, zany280 is that he’s the STEP father of the child, and as such, he may be neglecting a kid that’s “not his”. I advocated watching him because THIS MAY NOT BE THE CASE, or it may.
Also, on reading more closely what you said zany280 I have a question for you. Have you ever had to handle an autistic child having a tantrum on your own? If not, than you can shut the hell up, and stop trying to quieten me. I HAVE had to handle an autistic child’s tantrum ON MY OWN. FYI an autistic child having a tantrum is NOT PRETTY. There was head banging, vomiting, shit fllinging and ornaments broken, just to name a few things. All because I told them they could not have any more candy that day. That’s just part of learning to deal with an autistic child, until you can teach them other ways to deal with frustration, IF you ever can. We did eventually manage to teach the kid self control, we got a wonderful teaching assistant to help.
I had an eighteen month old girl and a newborn boy and I can assure you I would NEVER have pulled a stunt like that. Kids that age need to know that you as their parent are always there for them. Abandonment is one of the biggest fear for little kids and is NOT a tool for manipulative parents to use on their children.
I would have asked the kid if he was planning on abandoning his child and would he like me to call Child and Family Svcs. to come makle sure he is safe. Yes I would. Did he plan to leave the kid there? Probably not. Did the boy know that? NO!!! Fucking asshole I’m getting more pissed off about this as I type.
I will never walk away from such a situation, i feel that as a human being we all have a responsibility towards those who cannot defend or speak up for themselves. “Oh” you’ll say,“you are interfering with the parents’ rights” Boo fucking hoo…you treat your kids like that in public, who knows what you do in private.
-Mike (who has been arrested for stopping a parent from beating up their kid—and I’d do it again in a heartbeat)
Exactly why everyone else in this thread is so upset, including myself, MikeG. The child did not know it wasn’t being abandoned, and that’s why I personally thought it was abusive. Proving the abuse is another matter, which for the child’s well being is the best thing the observer can do. This is also why I advocated DOCUMENTING the incident, and every incident thereafter, if there are any more. Take the documentation to the proper authorities, and let them take over. It’s about all you really can do in cases like this, where an actual beating is not taking place.
Strangely enough, Zabali, I’ve not followed your career on the SDMB anxiously awaiting every posting about the twists and turns of your life.
I’ll also point out that you obviously haven’t followed mine either ;).
Yes sweetie, I know. I was trying to mildly find out if there were a way for you to address the situation. The questions I asked were honest ones. Not meant to make you feel you’ve overreacted. I don’t see that you really did that so much as maybe, not being parent yourself, it seemed much worse to you than it was. I think some people could possibly be overreacting to your imagined overreacting (okay, now I’ve confused myself :D)
[quoteI agree that he might not be unstable, but why risk it? Imagine how outraged you would feel if someone came up to you (Especially if it was aggressively.) and accused you of being abusive to a child? Strong words, likely to bring a strong reaction from the person you are confronting.[/quote]
Well, that was why I was wondering if you knew what kind of person he was. See…there ARE subtle and tactful ways of bringing something to someone’s attention without sending them into a “rage”.
It might be better coming from say the management of the office building. They might be more prepared to diplomatically deal with this sort of thing.
Personally? If this person worked in my building, and didn’t appear to be a knuckle dragging neanderthal? I’d probably go out and stand near the little boy, signal to the man, and gently and kindly say something non-confrontational like “oh, would you like some help??, I think he might have thought he was really getting left behind”. Again, as you and other posters have said, it would depend upon how well you knew the person.
Well, again “taking action” needn’t mean an all out accusation of “child abuse”. But then **Avabeth ** was the only one there, from what I’ve seen of her on the boards here, I trust that she has the intelligence and good judgment to do the right thing.
Father of four checking in here (9 yo girl, 6, 4, and 2 yo boys). Please add me to the group that thinks there’s some substantial overreacting going on here.
I remember our going from one child to two. While the number of children has increased arithmatically, the amount of work is squared, and sleep just dies. No sleep. None. Nada. For me or for Mrs. Ivorybill. We both made some minor parenting blunders due to sleep deprivation, at home and in public. The marriage was/is fine, the kids were/are fine, child protective services wasn’t needed.
Give the guy a break, folks. He was likely sleep impaired and not thinking clearly. If you’re upset by this, and see him again, and still feel you need to say something to him, you might try: “I understand that parenting two kids is tough when they’re this age. You probably didn’t realize it, but your 18 month old was terrified and upset when he couldn’t follow you. If you ever want some help getting the kids to the car, I’d be happy to do what I can.”
He didn’t seem overwhelmed, though, he seemed annoyed at the older child. He’s a big guy and had the baby in a carrier, and could have easily picked the older boy up in one arm (I could have and have done it with my cousins, and I’m a lot smaller than this guy was) instead of walking away.
Maybe I was overreacting, but I don’t like to see any child terrified like that. And the fact that the guy ran back over to show off the baby to the women - well, that just pissed me off, especially when the older boy was still standing there crying. I didn’t go out because my co-workers did and because I was rather angry.
Maybe it was a one-time thing. But I will keep an eye out - if I see it again, I’ll either say something to him or find the mother (she works upstairs, too). Something just seemed wrong, and I tend to trust my instincts.
Ava
Ava, my comments were directed more towards the posters in this thread who appear to be seething with the rage of 1000 suns and reading more sinister overtones into behavior that could just as easily be explained by cluelessness, sleep deprivation, or a combination of the two. Persons metioning (however casually) that you should consider calling or invoking child protective services are WAY over the top IMHO.
I’m not suggesting that you shouldn’t have been upset at seeing a terrified child. The whole scenario you describe is a parenting blunder, no doubt about it. By all means say something to him. If you get the brush off, then consider getting word to the mother.
Human nature being what it is, don’t be surprised if your efforts aren’t appreciated by the couple if you wind up going to the mother. Also, given the number of people who saw what happened, she probably already knows.
Sleep deprived??? Name me a parent who ISN’T sleep deprived!
Hell, when my kids were that age, I was running my own cabinet shop, going to DePaul University, working at Wrigley Field part time, and moonligihting doing security investigations at night! Being sleepy is no fucking excuse for leaving your kid behind a door and allowing them to think you are just leaving them there.
I undertand the rationalization behind that, as I have entertained the idea when my kids dawdled or didn’t keep up with me and I was in a hurry, or just in a bad mood. The difference is that I DID NOT do that. Don’t fuck with your kids like that, its mental abuse. Note that understanding of a behavior is in no way shape or form analagous to empathy or acceptance of the same.
as for cluelessness as an excuse, I can’t even come up with something witty enough to respond to that. Since when is that an excuse for anything?
My apologies, MikeG. I cede to your omnicient uber-parenting skills and perfection in all matters related to child rearing. :rolleyes: Sheesh.
I’m heartened to hear that YOU DID NOT ever make a parenting blunder while keeping such a full schedule. However, not all people are as capable as you; people make mistakes; some don’t have the empathy (in other words are clueless) to visualize how a child will react to certain situations. This doesn’t criminalize their behavior.
I don’t offer cluelessness to excuse the parenting blunder; it is presented as a possible explanation for the incident other than purely mean-spiritedness, callousness, marital problems, and other possibilities that have been raised in this thread. Don’t make a mountain out of a fucking mole hill.
If Ava chooses to say something to the guy, she’ll likely get much farther along trying honey instead of vinegar; if the honey approach fails, she then has cause to suspect there’s a bigger problem here and act accordingly if she chooses to.
Semi-related point: There are multi-million dollar industries devoted to isolating children.
Playpens, expanding gates, super-saucers, cribs, day-care centers, car seats, baby-sitters yada yada yada yada!
How many of you indignant folks out there have ever left your kid at daycare? Did you worry about the little tyke bawling his eyes out as you drove away? Did you ever stop to think he may have not understood that you need to go to work and that you weren’t “abandoning” him? Your kids ever cry when you put them to bed at night and shut off the lights? They ever get pissed when you strap them into the car seat? Newsflash! Kids cry, bears are catholic and the pope shits in the woods!
My house has a gate across the entrance to the kitchen. Little dude always wants in the kitchen. The kitchen is too dangerous, with hot food cooking, cleaning stuff under the sink, mouse trap and other stuff for little guys to hurt themselves with. He can’t come in. He’s stopped at the gate. He yells and crys once in awhile. As a responsible parent, I believe his frustration at not being able to get into the kitchen is minor compared to the danger that getting into the kitchen could lead to.
Zabali- Don’t get too worked up! I’m not attacking “you”. I’ve never met “you”. On a message board, “you” are your post. And, yes, I am a Jerk! Thanks for noticing. It does sound like I nailed the situation, however.
She said she loved me like a brother. She was from Arkansas, hence the Joy!
The difference with leaving your kid at daycare is that you are leaving him in the hands of (presumably) competent day care workers who are going to do their best to soothe and comfort his distress at your leaving. It’s a bit different than leaving your kid behind while you saunter off to the parking lot while he wails in panic and there’s absolutely nobody there to comfort him (except the few office workers who apparently went to check out the problem).
I don’t leave my kid screaming in his own room at night with the lights off, so I wouldn’t know about that. And as for the carseat? Last I checked, when my kid is in his carseat, I’m about two feet directly in front of him, in the driver’s seat of the car. He might be pissed off that he has to be strapped in, but he doesn’t think he’s being abandoned.
Yeah, kids cry sometimes. That doesn’t make it OK to be deliberately cruel.
agree MsWhatsit. I too, think it’s being needlessly cruel, and thoughtless to the child. I was not overreacting to the situation, I advocated calmly monitoring the situation to see if it was just a one time thing, or a common happening, and to go from there.
Now that the “gentle intervention” suggestion has been clarified, I do agree that it might work.
I wasn’t saying go hysterical and call CPS now, I said watch the situation to figure out what needs to be done, and then do it. Nothing may need to be done. (Although I would be pretty upset at seeing the situation too, and need to vent somewhere.)
As for the people who made the comments about parents being human, and making mistakes. Yeah, parents make mistakes all the time, and are not “tuned in” to the emotional needs of their children. LOOK AROUND at what children are doing now! A kid just recently got in legal trouble for pouring boiling hot water on his sleeping friend. I saw the video the kid made on the tv when the news broke, it looked like he pulled the water out of the microwave, and he was VERY careful not to spill it on himself, yet he seemed to have no clue it would hurt his friend badly. Either that, or he did not care. Why else would he have done the “stunt”?
Are you sure you want to continue shrugging over parents who are clueless, and not get them the help they need to raise their children to be emotionally healthy members of society in good standing? This crap has to end. Why not start with the generation that’s in diapers now? Why not do what you can if you see a kid that’s not having all it’s needs met, and get the parent help so they can meet all the needs? By that I mean parenting classes so they can better meet the emotional needs of a child and see things from a “child’s eye veiw”.
Zabili,
I know you seem to react violently to people saying that you over-reacted. You seem to be of the opinion that you cannot be wrong on this.
I disagree. I think there is the POSSIBILTY you might be wrong here. I think that one episode should not provoke the reaction that it has in you.
Now, suspicion yes. What you need to look for is pattern of behavior.
How many times in your life (not child related) has someone formed an opinion on you based on small amounts of data? This can happen in good and bad ways. I’ve had people think I was a completely different person than I was – that I was a piece of scum or that I was a god of some sort.
Pattern of behavior. That is what is important. Your suspicions should be raised but be careful about extrapolating too much…lest you risk being wrong and looking like a buddinski fool relying on little evidence.
This guy could be a great father. You really don’t know.
Oops, wrong name at top of my post…sorry.
Agreed on that. When I read the OP, in my mind the situation was nothing too noteworthy. I pictured my little guy trying to hit the door and throwing a minor shit-fit. Last a few seconds, then he’s on to something new.
When I’m out cruisin’ with him, I’m the one who feels abandoned. He moves only one way: FULL SPEED AHEAD!! Those heavy doors he can’t open are the only way I keep up sometimes.
Now, about that Pope thing…
Everywhere you go, there you are!