Would you risk your safety to help a stranger?

Great Debates
1

I came across this story recently that concerns public reluctance to get involved in helping a person who was a victim of severe violence.

Likely many of SDMB readers are already familiar with the news story I’m referring to. If you are not then the story and the video link are found here.

I found the video disturbing and sickening and had some difficulty watching it. I totally abhor violence in any form and can imagine the guilt felt by the onlookers.

Is this a symptom of how far our society has fallen?

Maybe if one person had initiated some action then others might have joined in to help.

Was the victim remiss for not doing more to defuse the situation in the first place?

Would you as a witness have done anything?

2

Thats a tough one. I for one sure as shit wouldn’t have just stood there and said nothing. I also know even though I am 6’1" 200 pounds that if I tried to stop the guy alone with no weapons I most likely would have done nothing but recieved a beating. In a situation like that excluding weapons either everyone needs to assist or no one can. Which in 10 seconds its tough to get a bunch of complete strangers to agree to risk severe physical damage to assist another. If I had a weapon such as mace, a baseball bat or a firearm I certainly would have gone to town on the attacker.

I know it sounds odd but in a case like this I bet if an assertive petite woman stepped in between them it would have stopped the fight. In our society boys are taught from birth that you don’t hit girls but there certainly isn’t a restriction on hitting boys who get involved in a fight. If I had stepped in between them I have little doubt he would have clocked me but a woman he might have stopped. Certainly if the woman was struck then the other men in the restaraunt would have stepped in becuase again all boys are taught that you protect women.

I doubt it. Plus I don’t count the 7 people that the news report counts I only see 4 in any position to assist. Even that guy vs the 4 I see in the video the guy has a decent chance of inflicting serious damage or even winning the fight. One punch from that guy knocked the victim out of the fight. Perhaps if the guy standing behind him grabbed him around the neck while the other 3 rushed him but again we are sitting here analysising it. I am a little stunned at how nonchalantly the guy in the front right and the woman behind the counter acted. The guy pinned behind the attacker looked pretty scared and the other two had a ‘holy shit’ look on their face. They looked like they wanted to do something but just froze. I bet if someone else had rushed him those other two would have jumped in.

I didn’t see a reason given for the fight in the news report outside of ‘the girlfriend started it’. I don’t blame the victim but as a general rule its not a good idea to anger a 6’4" 300 pound man.

3

Apparently after the ‘girlfriend’ butted in line in front of the victim he made a comment on his cellphone to his fiance to the effect that he would be getting home later than planned because someone got in front of him in he line. It was his cellphone comments that infuriated the ‘girlfriend’. What his exact words were, who knows, but I bet he might have thought twice before saying anything if ‘boyfriend’ was in the joint with her.

4

The link to the longer version with audio is found here.

This shows the ‘girlfriend’ spitting at the pizza shop owner and trash-talking.

5

I’d like to think I would have intervened, even if I got a severe beatdown for my troubles I’m big and strong enough for it not to be the end of the world. This is speculation on my part though, as I’ve never been in the situation of having to make a snap decision to bust out the hands and feet on a big, mean bastard on behalf of a total stranger.

I don’t think you can blame the bystanders for standing and staring, I’ve only been involved in a handful of fights out on the town, but the adrenaline surge you get is unreal. First time I saw a friend of mine beat some guy down I was literally frozen to the spot, the fight was over before I could even begin to make a reasoned decision on what to do. If you’re not used to dealing with this then there is no way you can expect to make a successful physical intervention.

6

I have risked my personal safety numerous times to help a complete stranger.

Example 1: Working a shift in a fast food restaurant in college. Prior to curfew we always had a rush of high-school students coming in to eat, hang out and generally not be more annoying than any other large group of people.

One evening I noticed a big rush of people towards one side of the building and heard people saying something about a fight. I ran outside and got inbetween two groups of large people; one guy had been on the ground getting kicked until his friends charged out. The kickers then piled into a car and were trying to shut their doors and get out of there, while friends of the victim were trying to get into the car to return the punishment. I got right in the middle of things and held the two sides apart despite some pretty big HS students telling me to go back inside.

Needless to say the other people I worked with who talked a big game were nowhere to be seen.

Example 2: Two drunk guys started something with a third guy. I walked over before it came to blows…my honest thought was that my presence might help cool things down, and if it didn’t the single guy could probably use some help. Drunk guys started shouting at me (“Who the fuck are you? Why don’t you fuck off?”) but I stood my ground and said I wanted to make sure that everything was OK. It settled fairly quietly.

Example 3: Girl walking down the street at night and there are three guys hassling her. I’m alone but stop and ask her if everything is OK. Turns out to be different from what I thought (she’s with some friends who are drunk and horsing around, she is fine).

I am not more than average size (5’10", 200 pounds) and have never been in a real fight. I don’t think I’m particularly agressive, I just don’t like seeing people get hurt so when I see it happening, or about to happen, I get involved. Whatever seems appropriate - just make myself known and try to calm things down, get inbetween and try to seperate the sides, call the cops, or I suppose jump in swinging if it came to that (hopefully never will).

7

Years ago when I was living in a somewhat rough area of downtown Baltimore (near but not in Federal Hill for anyone who knows the city), I heard an attack in progress outside my apartment window. I wasn’t sure how it started or whether it was a fight, a mugging, or what.

At first I thought it was the TV. When I realized it wasn’t, I was in a state of disbelief. For a few seconds, I was seriously trying to convince myself I didn’t hear what I thought I did. I can’t believe this, but I was thinking “maybe they’re just kids clowning around.” However, the guy was screaming and begging his attackers to stop, so I couldn’t stay in disbelief for that long.

After those few seconds, I didn’t know what to do. I am a petite woman, but I didn’t think “gee, I’m a girl so they won’t hurt me.” It was more “if I go out there, I’m toast.” As mentioned, I didn’t know what kind of fight it was, so there was no way to tell whether they’d follow the social code of “don’t hit a girl” or not. However, I don’t think I went through that kind of analysis in the few moments I had to decide what to do. It was more pure fear that kept me indoors.

I did open my window and scream (in a shrieking evil voice that I didn’t know I had) that the bastards had better leave and leave quickly because I’d called the cops and they’d be here soon. I was actually on hold with 911 while I was screaming (I honestly didn’t know 911 put you on hold–I’d always thought that was a joke). The guys kind of stopped their attack when they heard me screaming, but they didn’t run off. When one of my neighbors opened their window and also started yelling about the police coming, they left. (Shortly after I got through to the 911 dispatcher.)

After they’d run off, a couple people from my building went out to see if the guy was alright. (They told me later they’d been getting group together to go out there and stop the attack, but it had ended before they could get it together.) He had some cuts and bruises, but he came out okay in the end. The police took our statements and one of my neighbors had seen the guys doing the attack (I couldn’t).

So, no. I didn’t risk physical injury to stop the attack. I don’t regret that so much. I really doubt there’s much I, personally, could have done. However, I didn’t sit there and do nothing either.

I do regret that it took me a while to accept that an attack was really happening. I still find it hard to believe that I was actually trying to talk myself out of recognizing what was going on.

8

I sure would have said something at the very least- probably something like “Hey stop that! Someone call the police!”

Maybe, like treis suggested, because I’m female and would have felt protected by the crowd.

I’ve intervened before: Once I came upon two guys fighting outside a bar. They were so drunk they looked like they were cartoon people playing because they were moving in slow motion and using very exaggerated movements. I yelled at them to stop and went inside for help.

Another time I saw some two teenages roughing up a third teen by the bus stop. I hollered out my car window that I was going to call the police and then drove around the block a few times until they all got on the bus.

The scariest one was on a holiday night about midnight at a normally very busy intersection . There was a crowd of people, a sea of people really, surging across all the lanes because an event nearby had ended. Traffic was barely crawling along because of the numbers of people in the roadway.

A fight broke out and then several people began to beat up on one guy. He was lifted into the air and thrown into a pile of rocks and gravel, where some others came to kick him. I know he was injured and possibly badly. I was afraid to do anything myself because of the crowd- it seemed like it could turn into a riot and I was already feeling trapped and unsafe in my car. I called the police on my cell phone and they said someone was in route already. That one was the scariest because of the crowd.

9

What, nobody’s mentioed Kitty Genovese yet?

10

Would I risk my safety to help a stranger? Yes. I have, on several occasions. I also feel compelled to note that I’m stupid, and I probably could have gotten myself killed, but I’m one of those people who doesn’t stop to think.

11

I have on many occasions. But then again, I’m 6’6" and weigh about 385 pounds and usually It just requires me to get inbetween and say “stop”. It’s easy for me, maybe not so much for someone who isn’t repulsivly enourmous like myself.

In the case in the video…that was a big guy. I don’t blame anyone for not stepping in.

12

I don’t draw a direct parallel to the kitty genovese case because the observers in the pizza joint were not watching from a safe distance. They appeared ‘paralyzed by fear’ most likely related to the attackers’s imposing size. Each one likely felt helpless as an individual and looked upon assisting the victim as futile. They would have had to come together as a group to be somewhat effective. The fear factor was the overwhelming concern in this case.

13

I just wanna chime in with a thought: This is what we, as american citizens, are trained to do in these cases. Stand around, watch as if it were a TV show, don’t stick our necks out, and let the police deal with it.

These people acted properly by the rules of their society.
Then again, that’s a BIG dude. I woulda been pissing myself… and I’m bigger than him. But not nearly as mean.

14

I am 5’2 and around 95-100 pounds and I have risked my safety to help a stranger.

I disagree that a small petite woman stepping between those two guys in that situation would have helped. From my experience in fights, most of the agressors don’t even think, they just act. After the punching had been done, then I would probably be able to command him around, but in the heat of the moment, I would never go in unless I thought the person was in danger of dying right then and/or there was no one else to help.

A few months ago, two of my female friends and I went to go clubbing. I was wearing a very short, tight dress and heeled, platform boots. As we were waiting outside the nightclub for the rest of our group to show up, a group spilled out of the nightclub. At first it was hard to tell what was going on and it seemed to just be a group of 20-somes yelling and shoving each other. Eventually it got to the point where one person was on the ground and about 5 -7 people were standing around kicking him. At first everyone stood and stared. It was a new situation for me (and I assume most of the other people there) and it all happened so fast. As soon as my brain processed what was happening, I was determined to do something even though all of the people involved were 2 - 3 times my size. Luckily, some security guards came running over and the attackers started heading in all different directions.

Two large girls and a guy were heading away. I saw that they were going to just be able to walk off and I went over and jumped on one of the girl’s back. She was well over twice my size and was still able to walk, just less slowly than normal. I somehow managed to get them to stop and I commanded them to remain in one location. Oddly enough, they did.

I’d do it again in a heartbeat.