Yeah, that would be great if it were always possible to have an open conversation with a manager. That might be reality where you work, but it’s not reality in the larger world.
Uh-huh. I have, personally, experienced such “open” conversation as being told I will NEVER be given an advancement opportunity at a company because:
women just quit when they have kids anyway
I’m not a member of the family that owns the company
there are no avenues for advancement for anyone who went to public schools
I need to accept Jesus as my savior first.
And if you say hey, some of that is illegal yes, you are correct. But I was not in a position to fight that. (I’ll just throw in here that I did not work long for any of those companies after those “open conversations”) Mind you, these are just the managers/owners who said the quiet part out loud - how many other times was I passed over that I never knew the reason? How many other circumstances where no matter what I did I would never get the raise or the opportunity to advance because of who/what I was?
That’s a lot of problem - entire categories of people who have been routinely and consistently passed over not because of what they did or didn’t do but because of some other reason that made it impossible for them to, as you put it, advance.
I’m just old enough to remember when it was entirely legal to openly pay women or minorities less money for the exact same job, for the exact same performance, as a White man. It would be foolish to think that bias has been entirely wiped out.
In other words, you did it anyway and didn’t say the quiet part out loud.
I just looked, and we’re #1 on their 2022 company rankings. So yeah, we’re doing pretty well.
I think the theory is that if you discourage people, then the only reviews will be by angry ex-employees. Current employees are presumably much happier on average, so getting them to leave reviews increases the average. As far as I can tell, the encouragement has been purely neutral; the emails don’t suggest biasing the outcome. It does help that they are actually a good employer in my experience.
@Crane, are you specifically talking about people who bring up someone else’s salary in a salary discussion? That’s a very specific situation and i tend to agree it’s irrelevant and unprofessional.
But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about if a general cultural valies that salaries should never be shared serves to benefit management at the expense of workers (and benefit upper management/owners at the expense of middle managers).
yes, exactly. and the tide is turning in our favor! from the link I started this thread over:
Luckily, our societal taboo against talking about pay is rapidly changing. 79% of workers say they want more pay transparency from their companies. And just in the last year, states like Connecticut, Nevada, Rhode Island, and Colorado have all passed laws that require employers to offer a pay range for positions during the hiring process, so you’ll know what kind of offer will be on the table before you spend too many months on interviews.
Clearly it does. It also conceals steps being taken to solve the problem.
It took my management team 2 years to implement a uniform review process that would yield a statistically meaningful result - a single graphical representation of all employees with respect to salary and performance. It illustrated some major issues. The result was that some high flyers did not get raises and some unsung heroes did.
Salary information without context is meaningless. Discussion among employees is a distraction.
Salary policy is another topic, worthy of it’s own thread
I’d discuss with people that ask, sure. Agree that “informal” policies to not discuss are for the benefit of the company over the workers. Wouldn’t bring it up on my own.
One thing I’ll say about sharing, sometimes differences in pay come down to differences in performance, and sometimes people have very strange notions of their performance, regardless of any feedback they’ve gotten.
I have no problem sharing what I earn. I’m a professor for a community college who works exclusively at a satellite campus which is itself a boarding school. I feel the public has a right to know (and since we have a CBA that’s publicly available, its not like I could keep it secret even if I was determined to do so).
commasense, that was a good video - it’s truth, but they manage to make it funny which is no small feat. I mean, the lowest paid guy was living out of his desk. (and it ends with a light-hearted look at workplace violence!)
it’s true, though, a good employer has nothing to lose from everyone being open.
I had access to the company database, containing everyone’s salaries. People would sometimes tell me they thought it was cool, I could look up anybody’s salary. Eh. After a week or less, it was boring.
But our company discouraged salary discussions. I know there were a lot of “pets” that were not earning their money.
Yeah. I’m non-exempt (thank god) I make ~$55 an hour. What sort of bugged me was that when raises are based on a percentage of you salary. 4% means more to me than it means to someone making ~$17 an hour.
What my employer recently did was give everyone (about 450 people) an across the board $4 an hour raise. That’s more fair than some cost of living percentage raise.
We are having a devil of a time hiring people. They want to come, they see the price of housing and say no thanks.
I had an employee who was a very nice person and still keeps in touch with me years after retiring from working. She was also lazy. She did the bare minimum required of her and never got a raise in the 8 years she worked for me.
Once she approached me about everyone getting a raise except for her. I explained that pay was based on performance and if she worked just a tiny bit harder she would get paid more. She explained that she didn’t want to do that and was just curious.
I don’t share my total compensation publicly. I have a base salary which also includes an executive stipend. I have an annual bonus amount that is payable up to 50% of my base salary, depending upon the achievment of specific financial targets of the company. And I also have a long term incentive package that is subject to performance awards annually. The long term incentive is paid out over a 3 year period, and is also based upon achievement of specific financial metrics of the company. My employer is a privately held company, and as such the specifics of my comp package are not public, but many of my peers who work for publicly traded companies have their compensation packages made public through annual filings with the SEC.
