WOW. Canadians really DON'T care about the CFL do they

[russian_heel]

Up in Toronto watching a Bombers-Allouettes game w/ a Canadian denizen. In the conversation I learned:

–The CFL has 12 teams (theres 9)

–The season hasn’t started and they are in training camp (it starts late Juneish)

—It only lasts 3 months (the season lasts July-Oct, 4 months plus 3 weeks of playoffs)

I’m not claiming to be the Guru of the CFL but are most Canadians that out of touch about the CFL? I remember about 12 years ago being at a Canadian casino in Niagara Falls ONT and absolutely not one person watching the Toronto-Ottawa game on TV.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ike_Witt]

There are nine teams and they each play 18 games. The same players and the same coaches over and over and over again.

[hogarth]

@russian_heel

I’m not claiming to be the Guru of the CFL but are most Canadians that out of touch about the CFL?

It’s somewhat more popular in the west (Saskatchewan, for example), and Toronto is probably where it’s least popular.

[Spoons]

@hogarth

It’s somewhat more popular in the west (Saskatchewan, for example), and Toronto is probably where it’s least popular.

I’ll agree with this. No matter who is playing, if a CFL game is on at my local sports bar in Alberta, people will be watching. The sports bar also has a great Grey Cup party.

[kenobi_65]

Though I grew up in Wisconsin, I’ve followed the CFL since I was in high school in the early 1980s, when ESPN would show CFL games (this was years before ESPN had the rights to any of the major US sports leagues).

A few years ago, my wife and I were in Toronto to celebrate our anniversary, and we were able to catch an Argonauts game. At that time, they played in the Rogers Centre (nee Skydome), and large areas of the seating were covered in tarps, because they just didn’t draw enough fans to attempt to fill the stadium. The Argos moved to a new stadium, BMO Field, last year – they share it with Toronto’s MLS soccer team, and it holds 25,000 for football.

We really enjoyed attending the Argos game. The feel of it was very different from an NFL game (I’m a Packers season ticket holder) – it felt more like a mid-sized college football game, or a minor-league baseball game.

One thing I’ve been told, though I don’t know if it’s entirely accurate, is that part of the issue that the CFL faces is that, in much of Canada, interest in football is well below that of hockey. I do know that the league itself has gone through financial difficulties, and several teams have folded or gone through significant changes, due to finances.

[FinsToTheLeft]

@russian_heel

I’m not claiming to be the Guru of the CFL but are most Canadians that out of touch about the CFL?

I know the Argos play here but I don’t think I have been to a game since the late 80s. That being said, I pay no attention to the NFL, NHL, NBA, ,or MLB.

[hogarth]

@kenobi_65

One thing I’ve been told, though I don’t know if it’s entirely accurate, is that part of the issue that the CFL faces is that, in much of Canada, interest in football is well below that of hockey.

In Toronto, CFL interest definitely lags behind the NHL, MLB and NBA which play with the “big boys”.

You can see 2017 CFL attendance here: Canadian Football League 2017 Attendance on CFLdb Statistics
The highest average for home games is Saskatchewan (33K per game, which is 99.78% of stadium capacity) and the lowest is Toronto (14K per game).

[RickJay]

@kenobi_65

One thing I’ve been told, though I don’t know if it’s entirely accurate, is that part of the issue that the CFL faces is that, in much of Canada, interest in football is well below that of hockey. I do know that the league itself has gone through financial difficulties, and several teams have folded or gone through significant changes, due to finances.

The league is simply regarded as a minor league exercise in the country’s largest markets. You will never get past the fact that in Toronto, there are true first flight sports franchises, and the Argos are not one of them. Sure, hockey’s big - but Toronto’s baseball team has led the league in attendance six or seven times.

Living in Toronto, I know far, far more NFL fans than CFL fans.

[Bijou_Drains]

@RickJay

The league is simply regarded as a minor league exercise in the country’s largest markets. You will never get past the fact that in Toronto, there are true first flight sports franchises, and the Argos are not one of them. Sure, hockey’s big - but Toronto’s baseball team has led the league in attendance six or seven times.

Living in Toronto, I know far, far more NFL fans than CFL fans.

The Maple Leafs are not first flight are they? They last won something when Pearson was PM.

[Ike_Witt]

@Bijou_Drains

The Maple Leafs are not first flight are they? They last won something when Pearson was PM.

Maybe so, but try and get season tickets.

[RickJay]

@Bijou_Drains

The Maple Leafs are not first flight are they? They last won something when Pearson was PM.

We all laugh at them but they’re a true major league team. The Argos not so much.

[Atamasama]

@RickJay

The league is simply regarded as a minor league exercise in the country’s largest markets. You will never get past the fact that in Toronto, there are true first flight sports franchises, and the Argos are not one of them. Sure, hockey’s big - but Toronto’s baseball team has led the league in attendance six or seven times.

I live in the Seattle area and work in Seattle within close walking distance of the stadiums. When the Blue Jays play here there are fans in blue jerseys EVERYWHERE. You Jays fans are dedicated.

(And very polite, I like when you guys are in town.)

[dtilque]

@Atamasama

I live in the Seattle area and work in Seattle within close walking distance of the stadiums. When the Blue Jays play here there are fans in blue jerseys EVERYWHERE. You Jays fans are dedicated.

The company that owns the baseball TV rights in all of Canada is also the owner of the Blue Jays. Guess whose games are shown on TV in every part of Canada, even those parts (such as BC) that are close to another franchise?

Those Blue Jays fans coming down to Seattle are almost all from the Vancouver area. Not a real big drive for them.

[tonyfop]

@RickJay

Living in Toronto, I know far, far more NFL fans than CFL fans.

Hence the constant rumors of the Buffalo Bills moving to Toronto.

[RickJay]

Incidentally, I should clarify that I do not agree with the premise state in the title of this thread. Many Canadians do care about the CFL, and the league is quite healthy.

It is considered second rate, specifically, in Toronto, because that market is different from other markets. Toronto has top league baseball, hockey, and basketball. The expectations there are significantly different from markets that have only top flight hockey (most CFL markets) or not even that (Saskatchewan and Hamilton.)

Back in the day a famed Toronto sportswriter said the death of the Toronto Argonauts wouldn’t be the NFL coming to town; the death of the Argos was Major League Baseball coming to town. When Canadian cities had just the CFL, it was the pro sport, and if/when they had hockey too, well, hockey is kind of considered a Canadian birthright. But when Major League Baseball came to Montreal and Toronto, suddenly things changed. Those markets were now in a different league, both literally a figuratively; they were a true part of the American professional sports market. Things didn’t work out in Montreal because the team was poorly owned, but they flourished in Toronto and then Toronto got an NBA team, which has flourished and just made the CFL look even more bush league.

So now Toronto is kind of a four sport city, except it’s not, because if you go to a baseball, hockey or basketball game you are seeing the greatest players in the world at those sports. Literal Hall of Famers have played for Toronto franchises, and visit it to play games. But if you go to a football game, you’re watching the guys who weren’t good enough to get drafted to the NFL or got drafted sixth and were then cut from the practice squad. It’s a good league and a fun game, but it’s not the big leagues and is visibly not even close. It’s very hard to get fans used to being fans of the biggest league in a particular sport to care about a second tier league.

Consequently, what a lot of Toronto football fans want is the NFL, because they simply perceive that that’s the comparable product to the other leagues and that Toronto is a large enough market to merit it. The NFL has no expansion plans and an unwritten non-interference understanding with the CFL, and the billionaire likeliest to buy/move a team is dead now, so it’s not happening anytime soon. The plans for the Bills to move to Toronto are dead; no matter how you slice it, you need an owner who can get the city to build a $1 billion stadium and there isn’t anyone willing to do that here. Consequently, fans here grab an NFL team and cheer for it.

The Argos’ “decision” (they had little choice) to move to smaller BMO Field will work out very well for them. It’ll vastly improve the atmosphere of the games.

[Ike_Witt]

Personally, I like how the NFL declared Toronto part of the Buffalo market for TV purposes (meaning we are stuck with shitty Bills games every week) but said that the Bills could not move to Toronto.

[RickJay]

The NFL never prohibited the Bills from moving to Toronto, and in fact, precedent strongly suggests the NFL can’t tell its franchises where to move or not to move to. They didn’t want the Raiders going to LA the first time, but they did.

The NFL would very much like a team in Toronto, which is a huge market. The NFL has said on multiple occasion they’d be open to a team in Toronto, and at least three team - the Buccaneers, the first Browns, and the pre-St. Louis Rams - entertained the possibility. The thing is, a critical part of the NFL’s business model (well, as well as the other big North American leagues) is subsidies from government. Assuming you’re planning to move a team to Toronto, you not only need a billionaire to buy the team, but one who can prevail upon the municipality and province to pay most of the cost of a billion-dollar stadium. It is just not politically feasible for that to happen here; if anything it’s laughable. Toronto’s city council wouldn’t even dare to suggest forking out a cool $500 million or so for an NFL stadium, and the province would not begin to entertain at the notion. It’s a total non starter.

[dalej42]

There were Blue Jay fans everywhere a couple weeks ago in Chicago. I’ll assume the uniqueness of Wrigley and the Cubs being defending champions certainly helped. I don’t usually see a swarm of them when the Jays come to Comiskey to play the White Sox every year. I’ll also assume the timing, the series being held over an August weekend, helped as well. It often seems like the Jays get to Comiskey in April or early May, when the weather is often lousy.

[Freddy_the_Pig]

@Ike_Witt

There are nine teams and they each play 18 games. The same players and the same coaches over and over and over again.

As an American, I’m jealous of that aspect of the CFL. I would love to be able to follow a sports league where I could really get to know the opposing teams, players, and coaches. With 30 to 32 teams in every American league, I can’t do it. There aren’t enough hours in the day. Even the college conference that I follow expanded from 10 to 14 teams, to the detriment of my ability to know who’s who.

[Atamasama]

@Freddy_the_Pig

As an American, I’m jealous of that aspect of the CFL. I would love to be able to follow a sports league where I could really get to know the opposing teams, players, and coaches. With 30 to 32 teams in every American league, I can’t do it. There aren’t enough hours in the day. Even the college conference that I follow expanded from 10 to 14 teams, to the detriment of my ability to know who’s who.

There’s always Arena Football! They have 5 teams.