I thought this was outrageous, “Asked why West hadn’t been charged with filing a false police report, Ellison, the Ventura County prosecutor, gave this explanation: ‘We could not say with 100% certainty that Tracy West was lying.’” So they need 100% certainty to charge her but they charged him in the absence of that?
And because she declared bankruptcy, he’ll never collect on the thousands of dollars this cost him. Meanwhile, as the second article mentions, lots of people still doubt his innocence. It really sucks to be wrongly accused of a crime.
Based on his version, she “went nuts hitting him.” That’s not “an argument” in my book. I would say that in the midst of being physically assaulted, he hit her windshield and not her. Doesn’t sound like any indication that he has necessarily abused her at any point.
But even if he did physically touch her in that incident, he did not rape her and reatrain her and sodomize her with a hanger, as she falsely accused him of. It sounds an awful lot like you’re saying, “Sure she made these false allegations which resulted in his being imprisoned for 83 days and unable to see his son for months—oh, and he lost the woman he was dating and his reputation and all kinds of security and well-being and it pretty much ruined his life—but he was known to be mean at times.”
From the first installment: “I don’t have a reason not to think you did it,” the detective replied. “Yeah, I think you did it. I do.”
Is it common for a detective to tell a suspect to their face “I think you’re guilty” or for that matter “I believe you’re innocent”? Is it legal? Is it ethical? Just asking because I really don’t know.
Don’t know about common, but a Chicago-area dad who falsely confessed to killing his own daughter (the real murderer, whose DNA matched the sample from the body, was caught much later) after police interrogation - and almost immediately recanted - claimed that police screamed at him for hours, showed him photos of his daughter’s body, was told he would not be allowed a lawyer, that they would get prisoners to rape him daily in jail if he didn’t confess, that his wife was about to divorce him over not cooperating with the police, and that he needed to sign an accidental death confession.
The report on how badly the investigation was handled was leaked to the Chicago Tribune, who published it; it’s posted online as well and the dad’s description of the interrogation process is on page 17.
This kind of B.S. makes me so mad! Why are there laws on the books to prosecute people for making false accusations if they’re not going to be enforced? This woman has cost the taxpayers a buttload of money for the investigation, not to mention putting a stain on this guy that Clorox won’t take off. I think she and Crystal Magnum (sp?) of the Duke lacross “rape” case should share a padded cell forever.
They may mean they think she would say she must have been mistaken or that she was mentally ill or something ie they know what she said was untrue with 100% certainty but they don’t know if she was lying as such. Not that I am trying to defend their failure to charge.
I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this situation because it seems fairly evident that she is a psycho. [apologies for length below this point]
I have experienced first hand that dealing with someone that is completely irrational and abusive can inspire violent impulses in someone that is by all accounts exceptionally level-headed, rational, and pacifist.
I had a fairly lengthy relationship with someone who had some mental issues, and recall an argument throughout which I was doing my best to be delicate and diplomatic - the issue ought to have been fairly trivial - she had suggested that we form a business partnership, and my position was that it was a bad idea because it would put a strain on the relationship. (Her suggestion: I do web design, and she would be the sole point of contact for the clients. “The marketing.”) The problem with this was that she couldn’t really talk intelligently about it, and wouldn’t take any suggestions about how to communicate with clients. (Eg; For her, any kind of scripting was “javascript,” and when I tried to explain to her that people will receive the wrong impression if you tell them you intend to deliver an e-commerce site developed with javascipt, she dug in her heels and said she wouldn’t bother to try to lose this habit, because “People don’t know any better.”
Anyway, while I was trying to be as gentle and diplomatic about this, she got angrier and angrier, screaming, coming out with more and more over-the-top outlandish personal insults, randomly declared that she had a great body, could sleep with anyone she wanted to, and intended to prove that at the earliest opportunity, heaped all kinds of insults on me regarding my intelligence, stature, looks, and alternated screaming at me with her face inches from mine and leaning back to present her chin in the classic “Take a shot,” gesture.
At some point I was surprised to find that my fist was actually clenched, and I struck a wall (180 degrees from her) and left to cool off.
Now, I’m not a hothead - I keep my voice level during arguments and don’t ever get physical. My position was reasonable and I was well aware that it was a delicate thing to put across, especially with someone who was unusually sensitive and quick to anger. But faced with enough provocation, even someone who is usually as placid as pie might have a momentary outburst like that.
An elaborate plan to frame someone for a violent rape, though? This doesn’t come close when it comes to “That could happen to anyone.” When I contemplate just how deranged you’d have to be to do something like that, I am that much more forgiving of a single incident of lashing out at an inanimate object - because that woman seems like a real piece of work. It’s a damned shame that she won’t face criminal charges - that’s not justice.
It was something that blew up very quickly, from a rational conversation to a screaming fit in a flash. There was only a minute or two of the screaming, and it went from zero to “This is the most hurtful thing I can come up with right now.”
I don’t want to prolong this hijack too much - my intent with that anecdote was just to make the point that someone might easily be provoked into a momentary outburst of violence directed at something inanimate, and that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are generally prone to violence. Interacting with someone who can bring actual personality disorder level craziness can be just mind-bogglingly frustrating.
I realize now that the analogy is hard to justify without much more detail than would appropriate in this thread, and besides - my only reason for speculating that M s. West might be the sort of person around who an otherwise decent guy might conceivably punch a windshield is that I assumed she may have some sort of personality disorder, based on her behaviour - which is admittedly a bit tenuous.
Because she’ll follow you, screaming and screaming and screaming until she gets the reaction she wants. Don’t bother driving away either, she’ll put the rage on hold like a movie until you get back.
I was just discussing the fact that women can declare almost any type of abuse, and legally the man is immediately in the hole, with a friend of mine the other day.
It makes no sense to me - the fact that what they say seems to “go,” seems archaic to me, and is a power that is bound to be obused, and obviously is. The fact that she could forumlate some bullshit story and get him thrown in jail and labeled a violent criminal/sexual predator with no real evidence agaisnt him is a disgusting reflection of the power I’m talking about. I realize that sexual assaults, even like this one, do happen - and that is horrifying, but so is the fact that a woman could so easily fake an assault, and the world immediately turns against the man. Its a mess.
As for her, she should already be in jail. It is sickening to me that there has been little consequence for her actions. She nearly got him thrown in solitary for the rest of his life, and she is not only free but still gets to see her son. He was forced to explain himself to everyone he met or has known - and until the end, they probably still doubted him - because this woman was so vindictive. There are even accounts of her lying in the past - she should honestly recieve a nice hefty sentence her self. And, like a previous post noted, this is a slap in the face to real sexual assault victims.
I’m a tree-hugger pacifist and have never struck any one in anger in my entire life. I broke a kitchen cupboard door in a heated discussion with my partner. Would you say that it’s conceivable that I’m abusive and have a violent temper?
We were talking about home renovations and we’d been building all day. We were both stupid tired and frustrated, and growing more and more frustrated with each other when I realized we were talking about two completely different things. I said: “No, not THAT cupboard, I meant THIS one!” and a slapped the cupboard door for emphasis, and being adrenalized and it being flimsy Ikea, and the hinge broke and the hole cupboard door came clattering to the floor. Technically, you could say I’m the type of woman who would smashed a cupboard door off its hinges during an argument. It would be grossly misrepresenting the facts.
My partner, who rarely even raises her voice, smashed and destroyed the level on her power drill when something wasn’t going her way. Would you say she has a violent temper?
We had build part of a door frame and it had a very tight tolerance. It slid into place… except for the last half inch. At that point it became stuck and she yelped: “Damn you, get the hell in there! RAHR!” and started hammering the edge with the back of her drill to force it in place, which smashed the level. She could have gone and found her hammer and done it properly, but tired and impatient, she just wanted the stupid thing done and figured she’d muscle it into place with whatever was handy. Her drill was handy. Technically you could say she smashed her tool in frustration. Again, it would be misrepresenting what occurred.
If the guy ONE TIME slammed his hand down on a car in response to just having been hit by a volley of slaps and punches, I’m not going to say he’s got a violent temper. He didn’t hit back at his aggressor. That says a lot.
Precisely.
I’ve been married for going on 30 years.
I’ve never hit my husband and he’s never hit me but there have been (a very few) occasions when one of us has been so angry with the other that we’ve thrown/smashed/broken an object to defuse the rage.
Of course, once you’ve calmed down you are left with a mess to clean up but that’s way better than whopping on your partner.
I think Freudian Slit backed herself into a corner before she actually bothered to read the article.
I would be very interested in looking at the documentation of this complaint. I imagine that a report of someone punching a four-months pregnant woman in the abdomen would be pretty scrupulously followed-up on, as most people are more than a little disapproving of that sort of thing.
I’d love to read that report to see what the LEO’s made of the complaint at the time.
Each of those pages was almost painful to read. The thing that makes me most sick is that this guy still has to meet this bitch every fucking week handing his kid off to her. She’s a fucking psycho and she belongs in prison, never to see her children again.
Yes, if detectives think they have a lock on the suspect, they’ll say outright that they think the guy did it, or that they have hard evidence and they don’t need to talk to the suspect, they just want him to cooperate. Some will, as this detective did, bring up CSI to point out how TV differs from reality. It’s all to try to scare the suspect into thinking the cops know something the suspect doesn’t, and that he’s screwed anyway so he should just talk and get the lightest sentence he can. Sometimes the claims are true, sometimes they’re not.
I have no comment on how ethical the practice is, but it’s pretty common.
Actually your comment about evidence is dead wrong, which is the root of the problem.
There was very good evidence against him. The “victim” knew the “perp” well and had got a good look at him and could specifically identify him. That’s very credible eyewitness evidence. She was injured. That’s good physical evidence. There was corroboration from her husband as to significant details. That’s another credible eyewitness.
Additionally the story was inherently credible. Estranged couples fight physically over children all the time. Women get beaten up by estranged husbands all the time. Women aren’t usually lying.
All the pieces fit and you have to feel sorry for the cop who reached a conclusion that would have been correct the overwhelming majority of the time.
The only catch was the “victim” was a psycho and had made it all up. The very credibility of the scenario she had faked, and the evidence she had concocted was the problem.