Well, I can tell you how my co-author relationship works. We brainstorm an idea (or a “plot bunny” as we call it) and work out who gets to write which character. Then we stick with those characters through out the novel, and alternate paragraphs and dialogue. We also do all our writing through YIM, so it’s all pretty instant (I think it might be pretty obvious to some people that began writing together in an online RPG). Then when we finish the book, one of us will take the edits–it just comes down to who has the most time at the moment. Then I generally take care of submission. When our edits come back, we’ll decide then who will take them (again based on time) and then our galleys are decided the same way. Generally it works out so we both have at least one opportunity to edit the final product.
I know we actually are rather unique with this style. Most co-author teams take a chapter at a time. I know one team where one author does all the writing, then the other author does all the editing/re-writes.
That’s not a very good excuse. Writing is a skill that can be learned. Like pepperlandgirl said, you have to write a lot of crap before you can write well; this was certainly true for me. And I still write a lot of crap. Just look at some of my posts.
There is no right or wrong way to write. Unless I’m knee-deep in a project, I don’t stay up to write all night, and even then, all-nighters are rare. I don’t shun anyone and I sure don’t put my life on hold, and I don’t know of very many writers who do. Whatever works for you is how you should approach it. I’ve done some of my best work at Panera or at my desk with the TV on; other people I know need absolute silence.
And, for the most part, writing isn’t a solitary activity, no matter what genre you’re in. All writers need good editors who can be honest about their work and who can help them learn from their mistakes. You will get better, trust me. Heck, I’ve been told I’m an excellent writer, and I still have someone else read my stuff. There are always things to learn and I can’t learn them if I don’t have someone teach me.
My advice is to find someone who is willing to be your editor, and to read everything you can get your hands on to learn how other writers write. But most importantly, just write. It doesn’t have to be fancy or deep. Just write.
PLG: Thanks for the explanation! The only thing I am still curious on is this: It seems you write fiction (Quite the Buffy fan, IRRC? I think I read something of yours back in 2003? Am I going crazy?), so how do you and your partner decide the direction a story takes? (I can understand a non-fiction book where research is being done, and you know the outcome) I could see myself mid-story having a fight with my co-author about the way someone died. It would devolve in to a playground style “I shot you- yer dead!”; “No I’m not!!” type situation.
I assume a good relationship and a lot of discussion before the writing begins, or is that the fun part?
You’d be surprised how many people have an idea for a kids book. Enough that I prefer to just say I wrote a baseball novel. Most people don’t have an idea for a baseball novel.
That’s the advice most writers will give you and it’s truly the best advice there is. I usually push it a little more and say: Write, read, and get read.
Get involved in workshops and take classes taught by instructors with experience – you may not agree with everything they have to say, but you’ll pick up some good tips and tricks along the way. You’ll get to share your work with fellow aspiring writers, read their writing and critique their work and they’ll do the same for you. This process is incredibly valuable.
Writing, like many other arts, can be a lonely process… but it shouldn’t be that way all the time, especially when you’re getting started. Learning from various mentors and from peers will get you a long way and make you a better writer in the long run. A writer’s voice changes throughout his or her life. That’s the beauty of the thing.
Keep a notebook and a pen with you at all times. Scribble down bits of dialog, bits of prose or poetry or even witty sentences that pop into your head. You don’t have to produce masterpieces or completed works all the time. Never underestimate the value of throwaway exercises or brilliant paragraphs you come up with when sitting on the john. You never know when they’ll come in handy.
Oh I’ve written a regular column for a website in the past and written several creative works that I’ve given away for free but I don’t think of myself as a writer yet. And I’ve been spending the last several months gearing myself up to make another run at writing a novel and as much as I’d like to believe that I’m going to finish this one I still wouldn’t call myself a writer as I’m working on it. I wouldn’t call myself a writer when I finish it and I am trying to sell it (got to keep myself positive on that). I probably would be hesitant to call myself a writer even if I sold it. The dividing line in my ego would probably be if I could just write for a living.
Hmmm… maybe we need a thread for frustrated would-be writers?
Hard to believe nobody’s quoted Capote yet: “Lot’s of people say they want to write when what they want is to have written”. There’s also a story about an admirer and aspiring novelist who asked him how much he wrote per day. When he told her “On a good day I’ll get about two, sometimes three pages.” She told him “That’s incredible! I can get at least 10, sometimes 20!” to which he responded “I’m talking about writing, dear, not typing.” (Of course Capote has one of the smallest outputs of any of the Great American Writers- hardly anything for the last decade.)
Orson Welles was once referred to as “the great writer, producer, director, and actor who never seems to be writing, producing, directing, or acting in anything”.
One of my favorite anecdotes: Celestine Sibley was a “world famous in Atlanta” columnist who wrote a few (syrupy slice of upper-middle-class life in the suburbs stuff) books (collected columns mostly) and did speaking engagements to ladies writing groups and colleges and the like. When she was young, feeling her oats and newly published, she went to a ladies civic club where she talked about the rewards and pitfalls of writing for a living. One of the demure mousy women in the group disagreed- not confrontationally but in a more “hmmm… not my experience” style- with some comment Celestine made about proofreading or somesuch. Celestine, the professional writer, decided to be a delicately catty magnolia and said something to the effect of “Well, I’m talking about professional writers, not hobby writing.”
The lady sweetly said, “Actually I’ve had some professional success” to which some of the women in the room tittered.
Sibley: “Oh really? Have you had anything published? Professionally I mean?”
Woman: “Yes, a book.”
Sibley: “Oh… I read voraciously. I may have heard of it. What was it called?”
Woman/Margaret Mitchell- very politely: Gone With the Wind
She said it was a lesson in humility she never forgot.
Okay, here’s an example. I’m at home now, in front of my computer; my time is my own. Am I working on my penguin-related screenplay? No, I’m yacking with you folks. Actually, I was going to link to that clip from “Family Guy”, but now I see that somebody did right at the beginning of the thread. Figures.
Oh, a good relationship is absolutely, completely, without a doubt, the most important thing. My co-author is my best friend and the other half of my brain. If we weren’t so close, this would never work. And we do discuss a lot, but most of the story is created as we write it (more on that in a bit).
I do write fiction, and I was big in the Buffy fandom. That’s how I met my co-author, we both wrote fanfic and we were both big fans of each other. We started writing fanfic together and then decided that it would be more fun to branch off into orginal work. which has been pretty awesome. The first book we ever wrote together will be in stores on Saturday
As for the fights…well, they happen. We don’t write anything big (deaths etc) without discussing it well in advance. Sometimes we just have different ideas of where a story should go. So we hash it out and hash it out and eventually we come up with a compromise that is pretty much always the best solution. Sometimes our characters take over and ruin all our plans–they declare their love too soon, they go on murderous rampages, they decide it’s sex-time-now, they don’t react to a scenario the way we expect. So in some ways, we know not to plan anything at all and just let the characters, and the story, take the course it should. We have learned to be very, very flexible.
I don’t think of myself as a writer, writer. But I do list writing as one of my hobbies, even though I haven’t written more than 10 stories in my entire life. I find writing extremely difficult because I’m a terrible perfectionist. I can spend days revisiting the same sentence and, if I can’t get it absolutely perfect, it will stick out as a terrible blemish on the rest of the piece and I won’t consider it worth finishing. I know this will prevent me from ever realising my dream of becoming a published novelist but, hey, I don’t think I’m ever going to be able change.
Or have you ever noticed how much time you can spend changing the font, font size, background colour, font colour, page layout view, normal view, italicise it, or perhaps download some new fonts, too? In lieu of, that damned chore, writing.
Why stipulate for profit? I’ve published both poetry and fiction in various small press publications, but haven’t been paid for either as of yet. I do have an offer to write freelance articles for a local magazine, which would be paid. Would that make me more of a writer - just because money is involved?
I have a GREAT concept for a screenplay. I thought of it in…1995. It’s for an animated film. Self-produced, animated and voiced by me and a few recruited friends. The script is currently in draft format with a load of post-its and scrap paper between pages.
I actually started working on it last February. I took a week off of work and got up and worked my regular 40 hours, but I put those hours into my project. I have since dabbled and researched quite a bit, having to learn the animation software that I bought and upgraded over the years, but hardly touched.
I am taking on the project solo. I think my friends have given up on being a part of this project because a.) they don’t believe in it, b.) it’s too monumental of a project, c.) they grew tired of the never-gonna-happen project after twelve years of “some day” talk, d.) all of the above. Every time I do make a significant leap in progress, there is no greater feeling. The plan is for a feature length film. I have a production company animation and a 44-second establishing shot of it completed (no score or sound effects yet).
I do find myself wishing that I had a partner, just to reciprocate some enthusiasm. The hard part is focusing on the project itself and tossing aside the “what will I do with all of the fame and success I will inevitably have in a few years” fantasy. If I could get myself into a position where I could make sequels to this project for a living, or make other independent films, I would be delighted. I think the desire to be one’s own boss is an exceptional motivator, especially after my last boss. I quit my job and started a new one in May, so a substantial life change also helped light a fire under me. Back to animating I go…
There’s a scene in Dorothy Sayers’ Strong Poison where Lord Peter Wimsey initially meets novelist (and later main squeeze) Harriet Vane, and playfully says,
I imagine from this that Sayers ran into a lot of “writers” at parties, too.
Nonsense, my friend, unless you have a very limited perspective on flightless aquatic birds. I hope you don’t think that the 17 known species of penguins have all been properly covered by a single well-received documentary, nor that their fictional possibilities have been exhausted by a couple of silly cartoons. Furthermore, a good story is a good story; I don’t care about trendiness.
Oh, yeah. I spent quite a while setting up paragraph styles for the screenplay format; yesterday I found myself musing that, to avoid the hassle of changing styles all the time, I could set up a spreadsheet to type the words into, and use a merge mail document to produce the actual screenplay . . . . but I think I’ll just concentrate on getting those troublesome words down, and worry about cleaning up the format later.
(It all comes down to words. If you always know what the next word should be, writing’s a breeze!)
Becasue when people talk about what they do it almost always refers to what they do to make money. Again, people who cook dinner for their family don’t go around telling people they are chefs. Only people who are paid to be chefs say to other people, “I am a chef.” Try it, go to the coffee shop and ask some strangers what they do. All will answer by telling you what they do for a living. The only exception you’ll run into will be people claiming to be writers and musicians. The whole point of the OP is to discuss why its only writers who tend to self-identify foremost by their hobby rather than by their profession.
I’m not entirely unsympathetic to your position. I’m an aspiring writer who has been published in small press mags for short stories. But lets be honest, the only people who read those mags are other aspiring writers who are trying to get published in them. I think there may by some confusion on my position. I’m not saying you can’t tell people you write unless you’ve made money by it. But I think its absurd to identify foremost as a writer when its not your profession. When asking what you do, people expect the answer to reflect your profession, but certainly there is no problem saying you are writer if the conversation concerns hobbies or aspirations.
