I am currently a sophomore computer engineering student. It’s getting time where I have the opportunity at internships and COOP opportunities. I have a few questions about writing resumes.
What do I put in the objective?
In the extracurricular activities do I list intramural sporting activities? Looking back at what I have done other than a schoalrship thing I did and some intramural sports I really haven’t been in any clubs or organizations. I have been to a few IEEE meetings, but I don’t know if I am actually in that club. I don’t know if they charge a fee to officially be in, but I know they let everyone come to meetings so I don’t want it to seem like I’m lying by putting it on there if I am not genuinely involved. What should I do?
When writing resumes in high school there were a million clubs and organizations to be involved in so it was easier to sell yourself. Now that I need to sell myself to a potential employer I’m finding it more difficult. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. BTW, this is what I have so far.
When I’m reading thru a stack or resumes, I ignore this section and all the B.S. & buzzwords that fill it, because I know darn well what their real objective is: get a job!
Leave it off, and use the space to put in something specific that talks about you & your skills.
If you’re not looking to be placed in the same kind of job, I would skip the work history. You might list the classes you have taken, and what was learned in each class. I think that’s what I did right out of college, since I had no real world experience. For objective you might put: To become a member of a programming team designing and developing software systems (or something like that).
If it’s for a job similar to your previous one at Majestic’s Steak House, I don’t think you’ll need a resume.
If it’s for a more professional job, you’ll want to drop all of the extracurricular activities (especially the sports stuff), and also the experience at the Steak House, as none of that is relevant to your intended employer. Only put in relevant things, which at this stage will be relevant course work, relevant organizations, and part-time experience if any.
Thinking in terms of a resume is a good thing though. Perhaps you can see what will look good on it in a few years. Get a part-time job at an aweful wage in your intended profession. Join that IEEE club or whatever other clubs are relevant to your profession. Load up on appropriate class work. etc.
As an employer, I can say that when looking for an employee, I am only after one thing, and that’s an employee who’s gonna make me money. It sounds crass, and I guess it is, but that’s a fact of working in a capitalist society (I am assuming you’re in the US?).
Of course, I will pay the employee to make money for me, and it will be a fair wage / salery that we both agree on, but the bottom line is, s/he has to do what I need doing, with a minimum of complaint and hassle, in the way that I want it done… and a way that’s going to make me money. They are not going to get paid what they earn for my company (this is a common misconception amoungst new job seekers), otherwise there will BE no company.
I just waded through around 250 resumes and cover letters submitted for an IT job. I’m busy running my own damn business, the last thing I want to read about is each applicant’s hobbies - save that for the interview! I want the key facts.
Keep your resume short - that is probably the key thing. Provide a link to a web page with further info if you are sure it’s valid, but if you’re applying for a job that is going to have a lot of attention from other applicants, the best thing you can do is keep your application short and to the point. I was simply deleting resumes that were too wordy without reading them (on the assumption that if they spend thier own time creating a wordy resume, what are they going to be doing on my time?!).
And for heavens’ sake, go visit the IEEE website to find out what becoming a member entails! Jeeze…
I am not an employer, but I am an engineer, so take both of those into consideration when reading the below:
I disagree with those who say to drop your past work experience. Yes, the Steak House isn’t relevent to engineering, but you’re looking for an intern or co-op position; no one expects you to have much relevant experience. They do expect you to show up for work on time, though, and having some work experience will demonstrate that you can do that.
Nix the sports; keep the Scholar’s League, and join IEEE. If IEEE is like ASME, you can join as a student for $20 or so. Even if you don’t go to on-campus meetings, demonstrating that you’re interested enough in the profession to keep abreast of issues is a (minor) plus.
I agree that you should keep your resume short, but:
I’d add in the relevent classes that you’ve taken.
Have a generic objective on your generic resume that say the sort of job you’re looking for. “I am seeking an entry-level engineering position.” But when you apply for specific jobs and send them your resume, change the wording a little if you can make it more specific to what they do.
I agree, though, that even having an objective isn’t terribly important.
DO NOT drop your past work experience. Christ, no, that’s a horrible idea. Some employers might not care - but some will want to know that you have experience doing an actual job. A lot of people (correctly) believe that any job at least gives you the skill of showing up for work on time and taking a little responsibility. A resume without work experience is not really a resume. Given a choice between a student with your qualifications who hass held a few paying jobs and a student with the same education who has never worked, a LOT of employers will always hire the one who’s worked. Some won’t, but how do you know who will and who won’t?
Also, don’t say “Cook, dishwasher, waiter.” Say “Worked as a cook and diswasher, then moved into serving customers” or something like that. Don’t actually use my wording, I’m an idiot - you get the idea, though.
And that isn’t the only job you’ve ever had, is it?
Wherever possible, list things in point form, not paragraph form. It’s far, far easier to read, and easy=more pleasant.
I agree that in your case you should be more specific in listing what your education has offered you in terms of specific classes or field work.
Your resume should not be too long, but what you have is too short. Maximize content, but two sheets of 8.5x11 paper is an acceptable standard.
If you have strengths and skills not directly reflected in your education, list them. Facility with many computer applications looks good and a lot of employers like that; if you’re real sharp with AutoCAD, say so. List it in point form. As long as your two sheets of paper don’t become difficult to read, do not be modest. If it’s a skill, list it. Say you’re excellent at building professional relationships. Say your communications skills are first-rate (and then try not to drop too many `ain’ts’ during the interview!) ALWAYS list that you are very good with Microsoft Office applications; they’re used everywhere, and even if you aren’t good with them, any monkey can learn them in a weekend. They’re idiot-proof.
One little trick I have used that has always gotten rave reviews is that under my list of specific skills - which by now is a fairly long list - I listed, as my last skill/strength, “Am a really nice guy.” It looks silly, but I have gotten more positive feedback about that than anything else. I have had a few prospective employers say that specific point was a key reason they picked my resume for an interview. Weird.
RickJay, you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? By advising people to lie on their resume - or “bend the truth” as you’d probably phrase it, you’re devaluing everyone who uses these techniques, and people who - shock horror - actually tell the truth on their resume. I am absolutely skeptical of people who say they have a “working knowledge” of a microsoft app, cos so many people seem to follow your advice.
By saying any monkey can use MS Office, you presumably mean, any monkey can start an application and type stuff? If that’s being productive with software in your book, you have pretty low standards. While my intent is not to defend the product, MS Office is a MASSIVELY complex productivity suite, and suggesting anyone should say they are “very good” at being productive is insulting to people who are highly skilled using those apps (and to your prospective employer).
You strike me as the kinda guy I have employed many times - they lie on their resume and at the interview to get the job, by saying they have skills they don’t have. So I give them a job. A few weeks into it, I realise that what they meant by “photoshop expert” was that they knew how to open the application and a file, and copy a layer… and that’s about it.
So I’m stuck with am employee that knows fuckall, and the choice of either spending my time and money training him, or sacking him and employing a new guy. While it’s tempting to take the latter path just to “get him back”, I know I’ll have to wade through a hundred or more resumes again, full of lies and puffy talk about how well they “communicate”.
Jeeze, how about sticking to the concise facts, and letting the best man win? If you’re NOT the best man, why should I - or anyone else - get the job? What about the people who really ARE "very good " with MS Office, they put in the hard yards but did not lie about photoshop, and they miss out on the job. That’s fair in your book?
Yes, it is. I started when I was 15. I worked there for two and a half years until I left for college. I have helped my aunt with her carpet cleaning business, but I was never officially employed. I just did odd jobs that she needed help with.
Though I do agree about people who lie, and though I do feel your pain about dealing with bad hires, may I politely suggest that you could improve your interviewing skills? If you’re hiring someone to be a “photoshop expert”, then as the interviewer, it’s your job to figure out if they are or not, and just asking them “so Fred, are you a Photoshop expert?” is not enough. Especially if you’ve been burned “many times.” The liars can be weeded out with questions like “how do you do procedure A?”, or even better, “given task B, what are the procedure’s you’d use to accomplish it?” The first question, you’re testing if they know how the application works, and the second you’re testing their work flow. Also in the second question, you’ll get a feel for their experience. The ideal answer will be “well, you can do it this way, or that way, or the other way. I’ve worked with people who like the other way, but I’ve always found this way best because of blah blah blah.”
Also, don’t feel bad about setting them down at a computer as part of the interview and giving them a task to accomplish.
Good point, tho I was using photoshop as an example. Obviously if I am employing someone specifically as a PS pro, I am going to do what you suggest, but employing someone who’s an all-rounder - such as an office manager who’d manage other people, and pick up the slack in busy departments, as well as do their own stuff - it’s not practical to check their abilities in every conceiveable situation - that’s what I was more meaning.
RickJay’s post really pissed me off, cos he was saying, even if you don’t have the skills, say you do, AND say you’re GOOD at them, on the grounds that employers like “all rounders”.
Slightly OT, perhaps you could advise the best course of action when I need to employ someone that I know nothing about? A web developer is a good idea. I know what I need to have done, but I don’t know the questions to ask. A cowboy could bullshit me just as much as a legit pro, and it may be hard to tell the difference.
In the corporate world, the obvious solution is to use a headhunter, but no one likes using them…
abby and Bill H., let me add my 2 cents, if you don’t mind.
I have known people that can talk a subject to the ground, but when you put them in front of a PC they become much less of an expert. Knowing the jargon and knowing how to apply your knowlege are two VERY different things. So, even if you grill a good talker, it’s really hard to separtate the doers from the talkers. One saving grace is that MOST people that can talk-the-talk can also walk-the-walk.
This is a situation where you ask for examples of their work. Get URL’s of sites they have developed, and look at them. But be sure to ask for specific ones they themselves have done, or you may be directed to good websites where they were a minor player on a big development team. Using the browser’s View Source option and searching for their name can be helpful confirmation.
P.S. This assumes that you know enough to tell a good website from a mediocre one! (Many people don’t!) But you did say “I know what I need to have done”.
Another note that I’ve had beaten into me more than once: If you don’t know something, and you hire someone who’s an expert, there’s a natural instict to just turn the job over to them and trust them since they’re the expert. RESIST that temptation! You’re the manager; manage. Even if you can’t know the innards, you know what the output should be. Keep an eye on things. Otherwise, you can find yourself where weeks or months have gone by and nothing is accomplished (or the wrong thing is accomplished), and you wonder how you got there.
I recently had my resume redone with the help of someone who has to look through them where he works. He said the best bit of advice is, no matter what, keep it to a page. No matter if you have 20 years experience or if you’ve only had a few jobs (like me).
He said he didn’t like seeing lots of irrelevent crap and other barely related stuff that could be mentioned in an interview.
For a co-op/ intern position, I definitely recommend keeping it to a page. I almost always believe in keeping it to a page, but would consider 2 pages for someone with a Master’s degree and beyond, plus experience.
Don’t worry about trying to come across as someone you’re not. You want to get the point across that you’re a competent student in your chosen field and that you are a well-rounded person. To the extent you know what type of internship interests you (size of company, location, specialty, etc.) be prepared to express that in a cover letter (again, one brief page).
I would include all employment, possibly even your work with your aunt. The point of your pre-professional work is to show your work ethic and that you have exposure to the world of work. After you graduate and have had your first professional job, you will probably want to leave this type of job off your resume.
Without going outside of your natural personality, you may want to get involved in some more activities. They may not help in time for this year’s resume, but there’s next year and beyond. Take on a leadership role, large or small, so you can say Treasurer, XYZ club.