That’s my take on it. If you suspect a problem with gender/bathroom issue, don’t try to police it yourself, report it to staff.
I see several posters saying “bathroom policing” is vigilantes taking it on themselves to bother transgendered folks using the bathroom the transgender folks prefer, in “violation” of the vigilantes’ idea of which bathroom they “should” use.
OK. Sounds plausible.
But how is that different from every day in every public bathroom in every public place and every office or factory in the land? If some obviously externally male person with a beard but wearing a dress enters the women’s bathroom at Target, McDonalds, or his/her place of employment we have the same issue. Creep in disguise, or transgendered person living their preferred / identified gender: hard for a bystander to know which. Depending on the answer, calling the cops or MYOB is the better bystander response.
Or are these cons hotbeds for both transgendering and for intolerance, so the issue arises a lot?
IOW, I get why bathroom policing might be an issue in the USA in 2014. But not why it’s a con-specific issue.
By way of disclosure, I’ve never attended a con. But I have stayed a few nights over the years in hotels which were hosting cons. So I’ve seen a few unusual things & people there. And I have hired, employed, and supervised transgendered folks. So I understand, and sympathize with, some of their challenges. And also some of the challenges they commonly present to more typical folks.
No one is saying it’s a con-specific issue. I’m fairly sure there are other behaviours in the anti-harassment policy that are also not con-specific issues as well.
The circuit court frequently charges battery when it believes that a victim’s resistance has been overloaded. After the jury has been inducted, you’d better hope they have a large capacitance for mercy. In any event, it’ll be an electrifying day in court. Remember that wearing flip-flops in the courthouse can cause scheduling issues.
Nonsense. This isn’t a rule written by and enforced by robots, it’s a rule trying to remind people that if someone has a cool costume you could be the 100th person trying to get a photo of it and you should remember that where there’s a costume there’s a human being inside.
There’s no harm in taking a crowd shot, there is a potential for harm if people are constantly taking pictures of you, without asking, if nothing else then to your enjoyment of the event.
Wow, you’re really on a roll today! This and your other post in the tobacco/nicotine thread.
In terms Dopers might understand - don’t junior-Mod the bathrooms…
Yes, exactly. And I don’t think it’s unfair to say that a disproportionate amount of ComicCon attendees are inclined to rules-lawyer things. I mean, it’s great fun* to be like that when discussing the minute details of DC continuity or whatever, but not so good in the real world.
*You may have to trust me on this.
I haven’t been in many female toilets, but I assume they have stalls with doors just like the male toilets(minus the urinals <probably>).
So what exactly is a creep masquerading as the opposite sex going to get to see anyway? Women washing their hands in the sink? Seems they should just scrap urinals and make unisex bathrooms.
Why scrap them? They save a LOT of water. Just put a screen up.
But I agree, the bathroom isnt a sex show in any way. “Nothing to see here.”
kinda like the last south park episode where cartman is going to the girls toilets
The issue is not the peep show, but the potential violent creep and the lone, vulnerable individual of the opposite gender in the relative isolation of the bathroom.
How many transgendered people are there at these sorts of conventions, then?
HA. I haven’t been to NYCC, but I have been to other comic book conventions as well as many other large events held in convention centers and trust me, there are no lone individuals in bathrooms. If anything the demands of removing and replacing costume components make the lines even longer at the sort of thing where people cosplay.
There are in fact public outdoor urinals (usually suitably screened from knee to neck) as a normal thing in some European countries. France used to (?) have them, Amsterdam was re-introducing them to prevent bar-hopping men from peeing in doorways and corners.
Frankly, even in the men’s room, most guys aren’t waving their package. I can’t remember seeing anything like that in the men’s room, but then I avoid looking for it. The only really exhibitionist thing I remember in a public restroom was some teenager who dropped his track pants to use the urinal, but I realized later he was mentally challenged and did not know better. In fact, every so often a father is stuck having to bring his very young daughter in to use a stall - and again, there’s nothing in the open for them to see while walking through.
Perhaps the issue comes where there are people who dress up and express themselves in ways at a convention they would not normally do in regular society - trans, cross-dressing, indulging fantasies, etc. So you might see less inhibition and many more instances about this sort of behaviour compared to your typical McDonalds or Wal-Mart, because they expect not to be harassed doing this. As long as they are not doing something objectionable, peeking into stalls, etc. - which restroom they choose to use is nobody else’s business and that is what the rules mean. (Any objectionable activity is a violation of a different set of rules. )
As for photos - technically, if you are in public, you have no right to object to photos. However, a convention is a “public place” but on private property, so the people in control of that space may make the rules regarding photos, and this is what they choose. Just as there are appropriate social convention times and limits when attempting to approach and converse with someone, the same would appear to be the case with photos. I would suggest OK, crowd scenes are just that but if you appear to be focussing on and singling out a person, simple politeness suggests you should ask permission anyway. The rules just make that formal.
You’d be surprised.
Also, a consideration I haven’t seen mentioned yet – have you ever worn a costume? Some of them are constructed in such a way that you have to practically undress completely to take care of business in the restroom. Then it’s getting everything back up and back on and adjusted … and yes, people will gawk, especially if your outfit is complicated or um, form-fitting. Of you have parts hanging out by accident. (It happens.)
Some people are cool about these things but not everyone … and some people are actually skeeved out, which begs the question, why are you at the con in the first place if you’re so easily messed up? What exactly did you think you were getting into? And some people are curious … nosy … and some just plain don’t know how to behave around human beings, especially those of the opposite sex or encountering humans who are Not Exactly Like Themselves. As someone who has been stared at, yelled at, and actually mauled in the street more than once at a con/show/festival/party/public event, the damndest things happen when you’re dressed up.