WTF is happening in our schools? (Not U.S.)

The BBQ Pit
1

OK, so violence in schools is very bad. This is not about that. It’s about the autorities giving up.

This is a kinda lame rant, but I just read an article in my local morning paper and it pissed me off.

My dad used to work as a janitor in a school till he was retired. The other day he told me something I didn’t know: Kids in ‘Junior High’ (being 13-15 here) had music on i classrooms while studying. Yes. Music. The teacher put on a Top40 station on the radio, while they where doing math problems. In fact, my dad told me this when we talked about collective punishments:
“When they had been really rowdy, the techer took away their radio priviligies.”
Me: “What!?”

And so he explained.

This is not a school in a poor neighbourhood, where teachers and staff have lost controll. This is very WASP:ish (without the AS, since we’re Swedish), suburban school in an affluent area. And teachers are so jaded with the whole teaching thing, that they put on the radio when the kids are doing math problems or working a chem experiment in science class.

Now, today I read that the Norwegian gov’t will ban cell phones from school.
Almost every kid in Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Norway have a cell phone now, from the age 10 and up. What I didn’t know was that it’s turned into such a problem in school. It seems teachers don’t have a legal ground to confiscate them during class, if they don’t disturb. So kids have them without the ringing, just vibrating, meaning they spend class sending SMS-messages. Said one kid, 17:

“I might have sent one or two… thousand messages during last school year…”

Maybe he was bragging, but still…

A 12 y.o. when asked how kids did before cell phones:
“What, waddya mean?”

Another guy, always answers his phone while in class: “I excuse myself and tell the teacher I’m going to the bathroom, and then I take the call. It could be important - my girlfriend calling about what we’re gonna do after school.”

A kid having a cell phone is a good thing, IMO. It makes for a more secure life. Parents give their kids cell phones with ‘cash cards’, pre paid. When they’ve used that months amount, no more outgoing, only incoming, and ‘911’-calls, so it doesn’t get to be terribly expensive. Also, in GSM-Land, you never pay for receiving a call, when you’re connected to your own, nationwide network.

BUT: Has the attention span of kids gotten so bad, they can’t be without their phones for 40 minutes? Are teachers so bad at teaching and handling discipline, that kids can use their private phones during class. Are kids so easily bored that they have to listen to radio to be able to study?

These are the kids that are gonna pay for my retirement in 25 years. God help me.

:mad:

2

When I was in a (US, State of New York) public school, we weren’t even allowed to chew gum in class.

What you did was sit in your seat, listen to the the lecture, and you raised your hand and waited to be recoginized if you wanted to ask a question.

Has the situation changed that much in twenty years?

When I have kids I’m going to look into home schooling.

3

Okay, I hereby apologize to The Gaspode.
He specifically stated in the thread title that he wasn’t looking for US responses.

I’m sorry.

4

I think U.S. responses are OK. The Gaspode seems to have wanted to make clear that he was not referring to U.S. schools.

If this is incorrect, Gaspode, I apologize, as an American, for my response.

5

I’d like to apologise, as a non-Swedish, non-American citizen of Britain.

Not for anything in particular, just generally.

Alex

6

The “Not U.S.” came as an afterthought, since I realize that public schools in certain parts of the U.S. have bigger problems than cell phones in class.
This is not to say that Americans aren’t welcome to discuss this. My rant is more about what is happening in schools, which is not spectacular (violence, guns metal detectors) and make headlines, but rather if my perception that things are deteriorating on other levels, which in a way might be almost as serious. However tragic a killing in school is (and it’s happening here too), it affects the life of a few individuals - directly - and all the rest - indirectly (insecurity ASF). But if the staff at school is giving up and letting kids talk on cell phones during class, then this is an attitude that will affect a whole generation.

And yes, I’m curious about how it is outside the Scandinavian countries - as the only news we get is about those spectacular and gruesome events.

7

Gaspode, crazier than that is that one of the major political parties over here (might it have been moderaterna?) seems to be using this as one of their smaller platforms for the upcoming elections. At present if a students phone interupts the class (say by ringing as opposed to vibrating) it can be confiscated until the end of the lesson. This party want to make it possible to confiscate it for the whole week (to prevent the same damned thing happening a couple of times each lesson all day). They are meeting huge opposition to this proposal.

Personally I find the swedish school system to be overly undisciplined (slappt altså). My comparison is however the irish educational system which I find to be overly tyrannical. Hmmm what to do eh? Somewhere in between would be excellent. I do appreciate however the swedish systems focus on individual thinking, a questioning and analytical attitude, and attemts to build as opposed to destroy self esteem. However I think even that can go to extremes when you have kids being held back in classes, not being allowed to develop to their potential because it wouldn’t be “fair on the others”. Jante law bites.

8

Public schools in the US are generally pretty good, except for a few (as a percentage) problem ones.

As for the cell phone thing…at my high school in CA, students were not allowed to have pagers at school (no one really had cells yet) and if a teacher caugh you with one, they could confiscate it. So that meant people were extra sure to turn them off in class, and if they went off, the teacher would often take it. They were never permitted to be a distraction. I imagine its the same with cells.

9

Noise pollution, true - but not quite enough to spoil my image of Sweden as the best country in the world.

And US public schools in any city larger than 200,000 or so are nearly all horrid.

10

I’m on the school council at my daughters primary school in Australia. We recently voted to permit mobile (cell) phones at school provided the phone was not switched on during class hours.

During recess and lunch, they could switch the phones on.
If they rang (or vibrated) during class hours they were confiscated for the rest of the day and could be collected from the front office after the day was over.

There were many, many points of disussion prior to voting to accept the phones at school including legal liability if lost, stolen, damaged, etc and we made it very clear to parents that our preference was for them not to be brought to school and if situations arose, they would accept the final decision of the principal.

It was also encouraged that if the phones were for ‘security’ reasons, then they should be checked in with the office at the start of the day and checked out at the end of the day.

I think that mobile phones are becoming part of our lifestyle and while we can regulate the types of disturbances that interrupt classes, we decided that we can’t restrict the children from bringing a personal item to school, provided they obey the rules of society and the classroom as a teaching environment and not an environment for idle chitchat on their phones.

11

Heck, our local primary school had to ban Tazos at one time (kids were buying chips from the canteen purely to get the Tazos, which then became a source of playground conflict) and Tamagotchis were more disruptive than cell phones will ever be.

No, cell phones should not be allowed to be turned on during class and they should be confiscated for the day if this rule is broken. My preference would be for all students to place their phones in a basket on the teacher’s desk at the beginning of class and collect them at the end - the kids could check their messages between classes, at recess and lunchtime.

Students are not the only ones guilty of allowing cell phones to be intrusive and disruptive. Perhaps if we teach them basic cell phone courtesy ('cos the technology sure isn’t going to vanish) at an early age, in adulthood they’ll be far more respectful in their cell phone use than many current adults.

12

I’m not sure I really understand the radio part of the rant. Do you really think that it is that much of a give up to have the radio on while students are doing busy work? (what I read from "they put on the radio when the kids are doing math problems or working a chem experiment in science class. ")

First of all it seems like a really minor form of positive reinforcement. Second I and many other people I know work much better with music on. Silence is distracting and wierd, a good background noise helps many people concentrate on the task at hand.)

13

FWIW, private schools in any city larger than about 200K are sometimes much worse, as kids not only don’t want to be there but sometimes have more means of … showing it?

14

FWIW, private schools in any city larger than about 200K are sometimes much worse, as kids not only don’t want to be there but sometimes have more means of … showing it?

15

Wolfman: Maybe I’m getting too old (40), but having a radio playing in class seems … just wrong.

16

My daughter does her homework to punk and heavy metal…

17

Well, yes, reprise. I did mine listening to Yes, Genesis and Pink Floyd.
What I’m saying is that this is another symtom of school staffs giving up and just not caring anymore.

18

Gaspode: How? If the students demonstrate that they can do the work with the music and demonstrate a preference for music over silence, how is the teacher ‘giving up’ by playing a little music while the class works? You yourself said you did schoolwork to music, so what’s the difference? Did you ‘give up,’ or did you simply allow a bit of humanity into your workday?

19

I don’t see how background music in a classroom is indicative of “giving up”, either Derleth. Background music is common in many workplaces.

That said, in classes where certain sounds might be the first indication of a potential accident (some science and industrial arts classes, for instance) I can see valid reasons for not allowing it.

20

I left school in 1993. We were allowed to listen to cassettes in our math class, and the usual choice was Use Your Illusion II by Guns N’ Roses. We were allowed to listen to the radio in certain other classes, depending on the teacher. One teacher had jammed his radio on the local public access station, his theory being that the students didn’t turn that station up as loud.

I can relate to radio in school. I cannot relate to mobile phones! Why do kids need phones? My 15 year old (14 at the time) sister in law tried reasoning that she “needs” one to call her mother if she has to go home early for any reason… it never even occurred to her to use a payphone. She said “What if I’m sick?” and I said “Then the teachers will call for you”. Can’t blame the sister in law, she’s just a product of the society she’s raised in. I want to know what is wrong with the parents who give their 12-14 year old children mobile telephones and allow them to SMS each other all day (according to sister in law). Are they mad? Kids that age not only generally don’t need mobile phones, they just shouldn’t have them! Oh, of course there are special cases who do have a good reason for needing one, but not such a large percentage of the kids. It’s just insane!