The precise problem I am describing is that these aren’t just a handful of obscure “crackpots”–these are the rank-and-file masses of conservative America! Our neighbors, bosses, colleagues, siblings, cops, teachers, and elected leaders at every level are buying into this birther nonsense! davidm has indicated this in his post, above.
That’s the danger, here, and my entire point in my OP. The crackpot-ism has reached epidemic levels. Something is really, really wrong with either education and/or public discourse in the US, for this to have taken place.
Agreed. Liberals suck these days at communicating their vision.
I don’t think that’s enough. It’s that political discourse has become entertainment. The media saw what Limbaugh could do in terms of media market share, and–while he himself I believe is sincere–a whole onslaught of media cynically saw the opportunity to get attention by mimicking him. I really don’t think Ann Coulter’s political convictions are organic. They’re just inextricably part of what she needed to do to create and maintain her media persona. In this same way, the Tea Party, Beck, etc. are clear evidence that conservatism is now the new PC.
Voting itself is merely the wake of the thing.
But the audience for this is getting old, and something probably will come along soon to take its place.
Ultimately, at the moment, the problem is jobs. Everything follows from that. Frustrated, unemployed, or underemployed people tend to believe stupid shit. Fix unemployment, and 90% the birthers and teabaggers will just disappear.
I agree that the lack of jobs is a problem. I don’t agree that it’s the main cause of birthers and tea partiers.
From what I can see a large portion of tea partiers appear to be comfortable retirees. I don’t think a lot of unemployed people are spending money on colonial costumes.
Tea partiers love Michele Bachmann, who was against extending unemployment benefits.
One of the biggest birthers is Orly Taitz. She’s a lawyer, a dentist, and a real estate agent, and has run for California Secretary of State. She doesn’t appear to be financially wanting. She simply doesn’t like President Obama.
Personally, I think that’s the primary motivation for the rank-and-file Tea Party folks (and I’ve spoken with MANY of them). “What? We have a black president? How did that happen!!! There surely must be something wrong with this country!”
Obama’s policies are pretty tame–hardly a sudden or extreme swing to the left.
What vision? I don’t think Democrats (or politicians who would otherwise describe themselves as liberals) are any more virtuous or in touch with their heart agenda than conservatives or Republicans are.
They all want to get elected so that they can exercise power and the perks thereof. Yes, even Obama.
This is not especially new, but the pandering and cynicism have gotten immensely more open and obvious. Why? Because it works and it’s easier than pretending.
Roddy
Right up there with the struggle against Cognitive Dissonance! Maybe even the numbers 2 and 3, in terms of threats to the Republic! Maybe apathy, but who cares?
Stewart does a half hour show, heavy of humor and entertainment , 4 days a week , with lots of vacation time.
Fox pushes a conservative viewpoint all day ,every day. That is hardly equal.
Are you too young to remember the '60s or the '70s?!
I recall a bit of a Mad parody from the period (to the tune of “My Favorite Things”):
Flag-burning peaceniks and mobs that are lawless
Right-wing fanatics parading for Wallace
Gun-toting Nazis all out on a binge
These are just some of the Lunatic Fringe . . .
And how will we know who are the ones that can’t be educated, unless we try to educate them? :dubious:
I can’t answer this question for david, but in my case, yes. Each and every single time I hear someone say something stupid/irrational that has real-world implications for public policy*, I’m going to correct it. I don’t think any of us can afford not to. What if the person we decide to ignore is the next Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray, or Jared Loughner? (Or dare I say it…Hitler? :eek:) Ignorance and irrationality–even on a microscopic level–cannot be allowed to grow unchecked; I believe the dangers are just too great.
*I refer to beliefs like birtherism, trutherism, creationism, and denial of anthropogenic climate change. Obviously not all irrational beliefs are worth refuting. If someone wants to believe in feng shui, fine. But denying that humans are adversely affecting the earth’s climate? Denying that Obama is constitutionally eligible to be President? You bet your ass I’m gonna correct that shit at every opportunity. These beliefs are not consequence-free.
I think you’re wrong, Cort. From what I can tell, a lot of the Tea Baggers are fundamentalists and, right now, they’re filled with chiliastic fervor. They think the Rapture is coming soon.
They don’t care about the environment or climate change because God is going to come for them soon and they can watch all the atheistic scientists and the liberal news media burn in hell. They don’t care about the potential economic impacts of what they propose because the world is going to end soon.
A lot of moderates and independents will rally to the Democrats if the economy improves, but I’m afraid the Tea Baggers will remain the Tea Baggers.
Why should we? You want to have fun telling yourselves how awesome you are, while generally peddling all kinds of self-serving crap. Whether I was right or wrong, you’d never listen to me. And even if I was the most rightfully right person in history, and you were the most wrongfully wrong since dinosaurs roamed the earth, and even if both of us were fully and completely rational (somehow), it would make no difference. We have different values and different fundamental assumptions about how the world works, how it ought to work, and how it can work. I’m not successfully going to change a basic feature of the human condition, and I’m not particularly going to try.
Basically, your entire series of self-admiring rants boils down to a gigantic sequence of lies, half-truths, and distortions backed up by a liberal dose of willful ignorance, all rolled up into an impenetrable ball which forms your paradigm. But that’s irrelevant: it is your paradigm, right or wrong.
I’ve occaissionally posted something else to this effect. Amazingly, we “idiot conservatives” aren’t actually that stupid. Only the young and idealistic (and usually stupid) believe people can usually be persuaded of anything all that different. They must either see the same truth, or there isn’t much to talk about. And it’s pretty obvious a titanic gap exists between you and I. I consider myself on the correct side of things (otherwise I wouldn’t be over here). You obviously would say the same about yourself.
And as it happened, I was simply going to smile softly upon watching ya’all rant heartily to yourself. But, since… John… apparently decided we were somehow conceding something, I decided to post. I don’t waste my time, and I’m only posting this because it *amuses *me.
So feel free to tell yourselves how special you are. It must be ever-so-nice to know you’re so brilliant and pure and we’re so stupid and evil. Believe as you like: come live with me if you want to know me, what I believe, and who I am. Until then, perhaps you should consider (just consider) that maybe millions of your countryment aren’t actually The Great Satan.
Nah, I think that conservatives that are like you are just proud to be ignorant smiling bandit.
Really, you would refer to science like climate change as a “gigantic sequence of lies, half-truths, and distortions backed up by a liberal dose of willful ignorance”?
So what are you saying, that there’s no such thing as “birthers”? Glenn Beck and Anne Coulter are fictional characters? That the whole thing is just a myth made up by liberals to discredit conservatives?