I was just looking through potential libertarian candidates , ( seemed like most just use the party more as an excise for craziness than actually want to progress party views) came across Schiff, who doesn’t think minimum wage should exist. When asked who he thinks could be paid $2 an hour he answered “mentally retarded people”.
The thing that most shocked me is that they already are not subject to minimum wage!
Is this because of organizations that some work for that basically make trinkets what the money goes to help them anyhow?
Is it a non-issue because burger King never tried to pay one of these people $3 an hour?
That’s all I could think of.
So WTF gives with this?
I’m sorry to say this but;
It seems to me like whoever decided this was a good idea is who we should refer to as retarded.
Am I missing something here?
Your context is very vague, but a cousin of mine was once in something that seems like what you describe. He is severely whatever the “polite” term for mentally disabled is today and once attended what was essentially a government-run adult daycare–a van would pick him up from home and take him to the center where he would spend the day sitting around and doing kindergarten-type crafts and such. (The program has a waiting list years long waiting for slots to open.) For a few years, they did have a workshop where they did simple assembly and packaging jobs. It paid on a per-part basis. The people able/willing to work were able to make some income for themselves/their families and the highest level of them may even learn enough skills to get a real job and become semi-independent. Everybody involved considered it a good thing, (My cousin was not one of the people willing to do the work and would bring home paychecks in the range of $2.00-$5.00 every two weeks from the small handful of parts he would assemble in that time.) But the work eventually dried up and they went back to making no money at all scribbiling in coloring books all day, so a win for the “pay them more” crowd, I guess?
Just seems like inviting grocery stores and fast food to cut their wages.
I don’t know the laws specifically on piece rate work
Or non profits but I know you have to have a fairly large number of employees to be subject as a company anyhow.
Idk, seems like inviting unscrupulous people to take advantage.
Maybe there are enough other things at play to protect them?
Idk, just struck me as sort of a subhuman treatment.
I can understand curtailing individuals choices when they are essentially children but if they can and want to do the same work as others I don’t understand exempting them from minimum wage.
how they get away with this in California is its a “training” center and never a actual job because your always training Theres a place in my town that’s almost what Darren describes above although they do find outside jobs for higher functioning people for a cut of the paycheck
They also had/have a contract with Edwards air force base for grounds keeping but most of it was/is pat on the head patronizing keep em busy work like putting coupons in envelopes for the local advert agency or sometimes nothing at all
My mom worked there as a member and later as a supervisor and made it her mission to never let them get near me as much as they tried to but they pitched to every special ed kid in hs
I knew most of the people who worked there most of my life and they warned me … there’s been so many investigations of the place over the years that if there was anywhere else for the seriously disabled they’d be out of business
There’s a mentally disabled guy that tears tickets at the local movie theater and has been there for years. He’s a pleasant and happy fellow that adds some character to the establishment. Not sure what he gets paid but I hope he’s making at least minimum wage, hopefully more.
The Fair Labor Standards Act allows employers to pay a worker less if their “productivity” is severely limited, e.g., if they’re severely mentally/physically disabled. Since that kind of law is just waiting to be abused, there’s a lot of paperwork involved.
Not to mention, people with those kind of challenges are going to need close supervision. It’s unlikely Burger King is going to want those workers, even for free.
More likely a win for the “child labor in the Third World can do it cheaper and machines can do it even cheaper than them” crowd.
I have a feeling the government subsidizes these programs, if they are legit. We have what is called a sheltered workshop in our county. These are adults who are mentally handicapped in some way. They do very good upholstery work. And other jobs. They run a resale business of donated items. They have one or two leaders who are not handicapped who are always on hand, but the bulk of the labor is done by the handicapped. My friends adult son is waiting on a opening to go there. He’s profoundly autistic. I doubt they get money. Most live in a group home community. I assume any income they generate goes straight to the homes bank account.
Hell george even tried (successfully?) to negotiate a higher wage for Lenny if i remember right.
I don’t get it, I understand menial tasks for low functional people and maybe at times you could offer some invaluable pay for some invaluable labor.
Exempting all from minimum wage is BS!
Unless I’m missing some sort of major point here.
Really ought to be something saying if you hire one I these people they get the same pay as their peers.
If just to prevent that one BK owner from pulling some BS .
I’m sorry , I thought we were beyond this dehumanizing bs , it’s just kind of a shock to learn.
Looks like Schiff was probably painted with a bad brush too, in that he appears to have known this stuff when looking at the full context of the interview.
Ignorance fought, though I wouldn’t call myself educated on the subject by any means.
A previous employer won some recognition because we employed a group from some local county organization. They were given simple and repetitive tasks and seemed to love it, but they needed more supervision and prep than regular employees.
There were problems. One liked pleasuring himself in the restroom and did no think to lock the door; another got his firt paycheck and ran across the street and through a neighboring field.
In ID, if memory serves correctly (it’s been a while since I’ve had any reason to look it up) the state subsidized the wages of people who were handicapped so that employers would have incentive to hire them as, after some amount of paperwork, they didn’t have to pay them minimum wage.
I have heard that the reasoning behind this is so disabled people can still work, and not lose their disability benefits. The people I’ve known of who worked in those sheltered workshops, doing assembly and packaging jobs that cannot be automated and usually paid by the piece, could earn something like $70 a week without losing their food stamps, Medicaid, SSDI, etc.
In her autobiography, which was published about 30 years ago, the late opera singer Beverly Sills said that her son, who was not only severely autistic but also deaf, worked in such a facility. This place had a contract with Dr. Scholls to assemble and package items for which they hadn’t figured out how to mechanize them, and her son packaged a certain type of foot pads and was paid 5 cents a package. She said that he was not being exploited - that he was performing a necessary service for which he earned an honest wage that allowed him to have his own money. IDK how it works when disabled people are hired for things like grocery bagging, dishwashing, etc.
My store employs a couple of such people - they are paid the exact same wage for anyone else doing the exact same job. But that’s my workplace.
I’m sure other places are not so just and reasonable.
These folks do have a “job coach” to help them through training and to navigate any problems that come up. The guy I know best does require some extra help with forms and HR requirements, but gets it from the store administrative assistant and/or management in his department as needed. Has a great work ethic and is very reliable.
But my company overall promotes fair treatment of that sort - YMMV.
I will note that if such a person is on social security disability they may be limited in how much money they can make per month - the guy I mentioned is physically able to work full time, and would like more hours than he gets, but he’s limited to part time because earning more than he does would jeopardize the government support he gets for things like housing that he also very much needs.
As someone who works in the SS disability area, this approach irritates me. The person working fewer hours than they are capable of is - IMO - gaming the system. Which I guess is fine. So long as we acknowledge that eligibility to receive SSDI benefits depends on the extent to which someone is capable of gaming the system - as opposed to whether or not they are capable of working full time (or performing “substantial gainful activity” as defined by the regulations).
(In VERY general terms) as defined by SS, an individual is “disabled” if they are not capable of performing the physical and mental tasks of substantial gainful activity (approx $1200/month.) I see it all the time, that someone refuses an extra shift, in order to maintain their eligibility for benefits. That is a successful tactic for them, and within their rights. But their ability to work the system to their advantage does not persuade me that they are the type of individual the system was intended to assist. JMO.
One of my biggest difficulties w/ my job is that SSDI sets up a complicated regulatory framework which is great for fitting people into various pigeonholes, but does a damned poor job of achieving any laudable societal goal I can understand - after 30+ years of doing this work.
(Getting off my soapbox.) If someone is performing less well than other similarly situated workers, or requires considerable additional expenditures to perform “at pace”, the idea that their wages would reflect that does not offend me. And i fully support providing incentives to have employers work with vocational rehab/training entities. I wish our government provided FAR more support for such efforts.
My primary experience with mentally impaired workers is the baggers at our local grocery. Only one of them (IMO) does their job in a manner deserving minimum wage. Of course, the (apparently) unimpaired baggers are no great shakes either… :rolleyes:
My friends have a son “David” with physical, mental, and emotional disabilities. The public school system provided special education until he was 21. The parents are determined not to institutionalize David, so after that, they had to find someplace for him to be supervised while they’re at work. David was generally a sweet kid, but when puberty hit, he became frustrated, uncooperative, angry, and occasionally mildly violent. He cannot be left unattended.
My friends were fortunate to get David “hired” at a place that offers employment to the handicapped. His job is folding things, and he is paid by the piece. The quality and quantity of his work are low, and some days he’s in a mood and produces nothing.
David does not earn anywhere near the minimum wage, but he is not being exploited. Any profit his employer makes is needed to keep the operation running. The employees have to be closely supervised. Probably most importantly, the place provides what is basically daycare for the employees. Without this workplace, David’s parents would have to pay for someone to watch him. When you consider that cost as part of his earnings, the job does indeed pay more than minimum wage.