I pay taxes so that cops, EMTs, doctors et al. can deliver services to the indigent. I don’t expect anyone to deliver emergency services for free.
I feel bad for his animals, but how can you feel bad for a man that left his pets confined in the house for hours as the fire crept closer and closer until it killed them? I find it sick that you support such behavior and expect people to go out of their way to help such a fucker. I can’t believe you enjoy those animals being burnt to death. You disgust me.
The sad, but very real truth is that some people need to be made examples of in order for others to do the right thing. Crannick didn’t pay. Of course it’s only human nature to want to insist that the fire department had a moral obligation to overlook this and help him anyway, but like many have pointed out, if people thought they could get the service without paying anyway, nobody would pay. I bet alot more residents will pay the $75 dollars next time around, which is as it should be.
And…StephanieLynn for the WIN!!!
Damn.
Said everything I wanted to say.
Said everything I tried to say.
Said it better.
Kudos.
But it doesn’t make any sense! Are gnus notoriously unreliable, or something? I mean, I could see Fox “News” or even Faux News, but Fox Gnus?! On the other hand, it’s gonzo, so expecting coherence is probably a bit much.
Bonus points if you’re a fake Indian.
Not remotely comparable.
If a vapid twenty-three year old woman shows up at the ER and demands that someone give her a boob job so that she can land a rich husband, do you expect the doctors to “deliver care”? After all, it’s what they’re “sworn to do”! You moron.
As you can see here there is a long history of excellent Gnu broadcasting.
The argument that allowing his home to burn down and his animals to die, is a proper way to send a message to all the others who might not pay the 75 bucks., is stupid When he offered to pay thousands to have his home saved, they should have taken it. All the other people, who you must think are just waiting to not pay the 75 bucks, would have seen him pay thousands. So they would have thought, pay 75 don’t get tapped for thousands. The message that you think is worth allowing a home to burn down and animals die, would have been sent. His home would be standing, his animals alive. That would have been the right response.
You guys don’t think very well do you?
Okay, let’s pretend we implement your system. Now people have the choice to either pay $75 for unlimited protection, or they can “offer” an amount after a fire has started, let’s say it’s $1000.
Please, tell us oh great thinking one, tell us how many people will actually pay the $1000, and how many people will refuse.
Show all of us uncaring, heartless, idiots. Use your magical powers of incite to show us that this system would work and that Cranick’s house would have been saved.
So do police get to with hold protections from people they deem undeserving? Say a crack whore who gets beat up by a john? Do they get to say, “Hey, you took the risk, your own stupidity, you’re not contributing cash, no protection for you!”
Or a doctor, does he get to choose who to administer care to based on their worthiness? You don’t pay taxes, no pain meds! This accident was caused by your own stupidity, take your broken leg on home!
The measure of a compassionate society is not how it treats the ‘haves’, but the ‘have nots’. Basic services like EMT, police protection, access to healthcare should not be based on what you have (deep pockets) or your character (worthiness).
You’re not getting it, elbows. The analogies you cite fail because in them, the people needing help have already paid taxes, even if it’s only sales tax. They get the benefits because they’ve paid their dues, even if indirectly.
Cranick was in an unusual situation where he had the option of directly paying what was, effectively, the fire tax. He declined to pay the fire tax. Therefore he wasn’t covered.
I’m a moderate liberal who thinks social services are a pretty neat thing, but they have to be paid for. Normally you can’t single someone out and say “He skimped, deny him police services,” but in this case it was possible.
Oh, well since he OFFERED to pay thousands, it’s ok. I’m sure he’s got tons of money just lying around, what with saving so much by buying a double wide and burning his trash instead of having it safely hauled away.
It’s not like anyone would ever refuse to pay for emergency services after the fact, once the emergency is over. Never happens, except when it does happen, which is all the time.
Note for the record that other FDs that provide services to the County on a “pay after the fact” basis are all planning to move to a subscription basis, because of how many people don’t pay.
Are you fucking retarded? Cranick didn’t “not deserve” the services of the FD because he *COULDN’T *pay. He could. He CHOSE NOT TO, because he is greedy and selfish.
Heck, even if we assume that every single person ponies up the $1000, that doesn’t necessarily fix the problem, given that fire services are a fixed ongoing cost and fires are variable. As I posted earlier in the thread:
If you knew you’d have 500 fires / year, then you can afford to have a higher on demand cost for putting out someone’s fire. But what if you have two fires? How many fire trucks does $2000 buy you?
You’re way off base. But to help get you back on the field: Canada has tax payer health care, the US does not. Do Canadian doctors have a duty of care to Americans? Should doctors in Windsor be morally bound to drive across to Detroit and provide service? If an American calls up a Canadian doctor and says, “Help, I need a doctor, I’ll pay anything.” Does the Canadian doctor have any obligation to him?
Even in the US doctors are not required to treat people that can’t pay. My clinic has a huge sign that says those without insurance have to pay cash up front. And even in the case of the ER, their obligation only goes so far as life saving treatment, and nothing more. You’ll notice that the fire department provided the life saving part. You’ll also notice that an ER is not, in any way, required to save the life of an animal. Period. You’ll also notice that as far as I can tell, no Vet is obligated to provide life saving treatment to an animal. Feel free to correct me on this.
You’re confusing tax based services (ie police) with a paid subscription service (private security). If I contract with a rentacop or Alarmforce they’ll drive around and protect my property. If I don’t have a subscription, they have no obligation to me.
You are 100% correct, they **should not be **. Which is how the rest of the civilized world operates. Fire and police are paid for through property taxes. Those with bigger homes will pay more than smaller, but still receive the same service. That is how it should be. In Cranick’s neighbourhood, they decided 20 years ago that they were taxed enough.
Let me say that again, they CHOOSE to have a subscription service, 20 years ago. And ever since it’s been that way. Residents that choose to pay will receive fire services from a neighbouring town. Those that choose to not pay will have to save their animals and extinguish fires in some other way.
Cranick’s area made the choice to NOT have a fire department. As a result, no fire department has an obligation to them.
I can’t decide if it’s sadder that this is so, or that someone would defend it.
A crack whore chooses to take drugs, chooses to get into the car with a john, doesn’t pay health insurance. Is she, or is she not deserving of police protection? EMT treatment? Hospital care?
Between the rabid “wild frontier, each man for themselves, let the strongest survive” Libertarians and the compassion lacking, money worshiping, rabid Capitalists, your country is kind of screwed, in my opinion.
Good Luck with that, glad I don’t live there.
Massive nitpick: 20 years ago they chose. One o. Chose rhymes with hose; choose rhymes with shoes.
JESUS FUCK YOU REALLY ARE A COMPLETE WASTE OF BRAIN MATTER. I’m not even going to say anything more than that, because it’s clear that (a) you’re not reading anything anyone else is saying or (b) you’re functionally illiterate or (c) you’re incapable of understanding anything remotely approaching logic.
God damn, it’s times like this that I *really fucking loathe *people.
Do you think the crack whore and the neurosurgeon get the same treatment by the police?
Same thing. Everyone gets patched, but better insurance gets better care.
A nice sentiment that ignores human nature.
Lets remember that in choosing not to pay for the fire service, Crannick pretty much sent a big “F you” to all of his neighbors who may have ever needed it in the past. Do you think the fire dept that services the area is kept afloat on people’s good intentions? Do you think the firemen say “Well, don’t worry about paying me, my family can starve out in the cold, but as long as I can do good for people, even when they haven’t paid, I’m okay”? Do you think the companies that make fire trucks give them out for free? All of these things cost money and in this case that money comes directly from the citizens of the area. By not paying his dues, Mr. Crannick (along with hundreds of others I’m sure) was ensuring that the fire dept. was underfunded and therefore could not respond as effectively to fires in his area. Like I said, a big “F you” to his neighbors. Now that he has a fire, even though his lack of contribution has contributed to the problem of the fire dept. being underfunded and unable to effectively respond to fires, he wants to reap the benefits of a system he did not pay into?
If anyone is the evil monster here, it is Crannick for flat out refusing to provide modest funding for a service that saves lives and homes in his area, because he didn’t feel like it. I am not lacking in compassion, I am not a hardcore libertatrian. I value other people for more than their financial contributions to society. But the thing is, I value society more. I value a society where people do right by each other and work together to make sure everyone is taken care of. The enemy to that kind of society is not a heartless fire dept. that won’t help a person in need, it is people like Mr. Crannick himself who want to reap the benefits of living in society that helps a person when they are down, but refuses to do what’s required of him to help others.