StarvingButStrong, you’re also assuming that the pets existed. Which, for the point of argument, you obviously must, but given that it took a while for them to be brought up… I know if there was a fire that I thought the FD was responsible for putting out and my pets (when I had them) died in it, that would for damn sure be the first thing I was telling everyone about. But instead, it got tacked on after the fact, like how he switched his story from “I thought they would come anyway” to “I forgot to pay.”
Being a firefighter for lo these 20 short years with this exact same situation in unincorporated “county” areas where some do not pay the $300-$400 yearly contract fee, there is but one answer for this; BECAUSE THE HOUSE WAS ON FUCKING FIRE!
This is bottom line; You are called, you respond, you extinguish the blaze, your department or your city hall/village hall/county council etc. sends a bill the homeowner, who will be in debt to you and whose insurance will not pay the fees because you had the option to pay for the service and did not. The FD probably spent at LEAST $75 in time and travel just going out there. We pull homeless from burning buildings, take drug-addled bums to emergency rooms where they receive care and contribute not ONE DIME, in fact, they get checks FROM the government, and still we’re required to save them. THIS is why you put Crannick’s fire out.
I know, there are a ton of you chattering rules-hawks in here, going on about how he didn’t pay, and how it’s his problem. There’s a word for you too; Republican.
No need to be insulting. Conservative, at least. Fiscally responsible?
I don’t identify as Republican. I probably identify more as Democrat, but I prefer not to label myself. (Damn things stick and leave residue that’s impossible to wash off.)
But all the people posting here talking about how the house ‘should have been saved’ (and the pets, let’s not forget the pets) are consistently failing to address realities. The reality is, Crannick’s home was a particularly fire-vulnerable double-wide trailer home. The reality is, his grandson set the fire and that they had two hours to let whatever pets were in the home out. The reality is that Crannick did not pay the fire department service fee.
And the sad reality is, the only outcome that was possible from the start was that Crannick’s house would burn down. That reality was realized by Crannick, as the homeowner, who refused to pay his fee. In the world I live in, the reality is, if you don’t pay, you don’t get what you want. This attitude of absolving Crannick and his family of guilt is astoundingly dense, but then, it has been 15 pages and little hope of a (fire)light at the end of the tunnel.
First of all I am a Democrat and proud of it. Second of all don’t you dare insult Democrats by calling reasonable, rational opinions about this a Republican concept. If the county had a tax to pay for a fire department like all the sane counties around them we wouldn’t be having this conversation but they chose not to tax for a service. Fire fighters, fire trucks, hoses, etc. don’t come for free from the Fire Fairy. That stuff must be paid for and if they provide free service to Cranick (who has proven time and again that he simply will not pay them for anything ever) and that leaves them with less money and resources to fight fires for people who are willing to contribute to society. If you are a fire fighter you should already know this. You can’t fight fires without the resources and you can’t get those resources if they aren’t paid for in some way. If he wants to be a Libertarian and choose not to spend his money on a fire service that is good for him but he doesn’t then get to wail and gnash his teeth because no one gave it to him for free either. We live with the choices we make every day and so must Cranick.
The reason we pull homeless people from burning buildings and provide them medical care is because we as a society will provide a minimum level of service that keeps everyone out of immediate danger. I think we as a society should do more than that and provide regular medical care to everyone and I vote accordingly but the rest of society hasn’t agreed with me yet so I live within this system and make the most of it. This has nothing to do with Cranick and the choices he made.
Cranick is the equivalent of a man who refused, loudly and repeatedly, to buy groceries and then screamed to the news that his neighbor ordered a pizza and the delivery guy wouldn’t give him any. He didn’t deserve to have his house burn down. No one deserves to have their house burn down. However his behavior was consistent with that of someone who wants all of their things to be destroyed in a fire. He didn’t pay for the fire service. He let his grandson light a trash fire in his yard despite not having paid. He didn’t attempt to put out the fire on his own. He did everything short of shooting his house with flaming arrows from across the street to guarantee it would burn. He has to take responsibility for that and people like you who argue he should be given everything for free all the time no matter what because he happens to be human make the rest of us sane, logical liberals look bad.
Take it back. Take it back right now.
I am not a Republican. I’m not even a conservative. I’m an old hippy who marched in the marches and got fire hosed, billy clubbed, and arrested (Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of tear gas in the evening!!) for my trouble. To say nothing of changing the world and stuff. I’m a liberal, socialist leaning, pinko.
Multiple times in this thread I have stated how stupid is the system in place in Cranick’s county. I’ve shown that it produces nothing but stupid results. I’ve iterated and reiterated my support for a rational *socialist *system where everyone is forced to pay taxes, which money is spent on serving public needs like fucking fire fighting.
But since the people of the community chose a stupid system, and because Cranick chose to remove himself even from that system (this being just one of the failures of the stupid system itself) there is no one who can be blamed for Cranick’s loss except Cranick.
So buttonjocket308, and gonzomax, and everyone else who’s acting so butt-hurt for this dumb kitteh-fucker, take your moral indignation and your condemnation off of me and the others who point out the real culprits. I’ve earned my liberal cred, and even I, soft hearted kumbayah singer that I am, can see what happened here. Moron had full knowledge of the stupid system in place, tried to game the stupid system, now acts all hurt that the stupid system and the stupid game didn’t work out for him. Pointing and laughing is appropriate. I point and laugh. Indeed, I jeer and chortle. Sometimes comeuppance is just too funny.
This *does not mean *that I wish the same for everyone else in Cranick’s county, nor for every other individual human who ever made an actual mistake or encountered some unlooked-for misfortune. Those people still have my empathy and my well wishes. Do please try to take cognizance of the difference.
Oh, and has anybody found a cite yet for those poor, neglected animals? I haven’t seen a shred of evidence that they ever existed.
So you know it was possible without trying to put the fire out at the same time? I do not know why. I suppose if I argue like you people do , I would say he was old and in poor shape and could not do it. i could say that it was too hot and required fire hosing to allow them to get close enough. But i can not, because i don’t know. If you do please explain. I am sure lots of people will express their guess as a fact. They have speculated on his motives and his thoughts. i don’t have those powers.
Criminy on a fucking crutch, gonzo, the morons themselves say that there was a two hour period of burn barrel / grass / shed fire before the house was even involved.
And yet it remained for the fire fighters to remove the pets?
Your argument, misguided though potentially noble as it is, has become ridiculous and untenable. Give it up. Please.
Yeah, which they did for his fucking neighbor, who paid the damn fee.
NO ONE WAS IN DANGER. Not one human being. Possibly some pets, but (a) they probably don’t exist and (b) the Cranicks had hours to get them out if they were real; by the time they called the FD, the FD might not even have been able to get there in time to save them.
No, I’m so far left I loathe even the Democrats. I think we should be taxed out the ass, with more money being given the more you make, and have amazing government services to show for it. But I also believe in allowing people to exercise their free choice when they have legal options–and pay the consequences. And when you *choose *to live in an area where people *choose *not to have FD services supported by taxes and you *choose *not to pay the obscenely minimal annual fee to get them and you *choose *to be unsafe with flammable things and you *choose *to let your alleged pets burn to death, that means you don’t get to bitch about anybody but yourself.
There is, however, a word for you: retarded.
What pbbth, CannyDan & Shot From Guns said!
(It’s so much easier when others make the pretty word thingies for ya.)
CMC fnord!
You forgot the Bibles. Gotta rescue those even before the pets.
Well, the firefighters couldn’t–or wouldn’t, if you go by gonzomax’s theory–all the Bibles in this building. Actually, they didn’t even try to save anything inside. And here’s why:
So, I’ll go with the FD couldn’t go inside to risk their human lives for things that aren’t human. Oh, and this happened in a community where there is actually a fire department.
Cranick, on the other hand, lives in a community that does not have a fire department. What is this, the thousandth time that’s been said?
Okay, so now on page 16, almost a month since the incident.
Let’s say we go with Gonzomax’s retarded position, that it’s all the fault of the FD.
What excuse do the residents have now? How many of them still haven’t paid the $75? Does the FD still have a duty to the residents that choose not to pay?
Going forward, have any of the residents learned from this? What excuse is there for not paying?
What should the dispatcher say to the next call from an unpaying resident?
Unpaying resident: Umm, I know I didn’t pay for services this year but, uhh, could you guys come over and, uhh, put out a, fire, for me?
Dispatcher (channeling Bill Cosby): Right! :rolleyes: Am I on Candid Camera?
CMC fnord!
If there are lives at stake, I think the firefighters should do everything possible to protect them. They should also do what is necessary to ensure (to whatever extent possible) that the fire is contained so as not to put other lives in jeopardy. If this means creating a perimeter and letting a single, unoccupied residence burn itself out, so be it.
The firefighters should be cognizant of the tools that can be brought to bear against a fire. If there is a limited supply of water for fighting the fire, that needs to be taken into account in deciding whether to let a fire burn itself out or actively fight it.
So they should pay 75 bucks for fire protection, but they wont get it because the fire department can’t bring enough water. That makes perfect sense.
They should vote in a tax system to fund a fire fighting service for the area. But then again, you can’t use logic with all people (see yourself).
Yes it does. You’ve just dug your heels in so deep on an untenable position to realize it. The firefighters can still save lives, protect property, and prevent/control the fire spread with the tools available to them. If a county, any county, does not have available water for fighting fires, then the tools available have to be taken into account in fire fighting techniques. If this particular county does not have available running water to actively fight fires, does not fund its own fire department, and contracts to a nearby municipality for its firefighting needs, then they should know what resources that fire department can bring to bear for the costs involved (the county writing the contract, not necessarily the individuals).
Okay, so if the firefighters are morally bound to help, should the residents be morally bound to help fund the fire department?
It drives me fucking insane the way this moral obligation seems to only go one way. If this bullshit little community expects to have their lives saved, I think the fire department can expect to get funded.
Otherwise, I say the community can get exactly what they are willing to pay for. They choose to chip in nothing, so for the next fire, when lives are at stake, a few volunteers can roll up with their own vehicles, and what ever equipment **Gozomax **has provided.
Wait, what’s that? He hasn’t provided any funding or equipment? That heartless bastard, animals might die as a result.
In other words, gonzomax and others refuse to discuss the actual issue here: what regulations/laws/ordinances/etc. mandate firefighters put their own lives at risk to fight a fire in an unoccupied structure? AFAIK, none.