Well Torq, in New Haven, our natural history museum vehemently disagrees with you. The town, as well as many establishments in the northeast, were named after not an English place but the industrialist Georgre Peabody (it was called Danvers when he grew up there, methinks) and at least at Yale, they pronounce it like two nouns.
However, New Haven does happen to have a famous Italian neighborhood called, simply, Wooster Square. We just went the extra step.
Ohhhh I know the answer, sorta. At least the history of the word.A book I just bought yesterday at Gatwick airport ( I had a few extra pounds to lose :)) has paid off:
Dictionary of English Place-Names. (by A.D. Mills)
Worchester (starting names and dates) Weogorna civitas 691
Wigranceastre 717
Wirecestre 1086 (as cited in the Doomsday book)
“Roman town of the Weogora Tribe” Pre-english folk name possibly from a Celtic river name meaning winding river plus the Old english usage of ceaster at the end of it. Worchester as we know it first referred to in the 11th century.
And, for your edification, Lancastershire is pronounced Lanca-shire.
I think the Brits do it to pick out the tourists. ( As if them constantly trying to drive on the right hand side of the road isn’t a clue enough.)
The early bird gets the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese.
Well of COURSE people in New Haven think it should be pronounced “Pea-body”, that was more or less my point. EVERYONE thinks that, except those people that actually live in or near the town, who say “peebuhdee” and snicker under their breath at people who don’t.
As someone who’s grown up in Worcester County, Massachusetts, I can tell you that ‘Worcester’ is pronounced (at least around here, anyway) as “Wis-ter” (rhyme it with ‘sister’).
By the way, people here are laughing at David Letterman’s mispronounciation of ‘Leominster’ on his show the other night. He said it like “Leo-minster,” not like 'Lemon-ster"
Are you referring to Lanca-shire, which is pronounced Lanca-shire? (There is a town called Lancaster, but not a county.)
But you American chappies are quite right to object to some of our spelling / pronounciation. I can only say:
these words come from a mixture of languages and have changed over time
there is only one Cholmondley, and no Featherstonehaugh in my regional telephone directory, so those sort of names are not a big problem. (However it is the LEICESTER area - oops!)
it is difficult to change well-known names or techniques. Consider the QWERTY keyboard, which I understand was DESIGNED to be inefficient. But all those ongoing typing courses make it hard to replace…
as the song has it: you say tomato, I say tomato!
In the bathtub of history, the truth is harder to hold than the soap… (Pratchett)
What’s the go with all the Brit-baiting? English-speakers the world over use words that don’t appear to have any logical connection between their spelling and pronunciation. I’m sure there are placenames in the US that are equally unlikely, so please give it a rest.
PS
Leicester (pron. Lester) is a medium sized city in the East Midlands - the tube station is Leicester Square (central London).
Worcester is pronounced Wooster
Worcestershire is pronounced Woostersher
Berkshire is pronounced Barksher
Other good ones…
Cockburn - coburn (Scotland)
Moray - murray (Scotland)
Cholmondeley - chumlee (stereotyped posh person’s name)
St John - sinjun (ditto)
Milngavvie - mulg-aye (town in Scotland)
Slough - slow (rhyming with “how” not “hoe”) - English town
Edinburgh - pronounced “Edimbra” by the residents
Ely - pronounced “Elee” (English town)
As far as I know there’s no major town called Worchester. There’s a Worcester and a Winchester, but not a Worchester (unless it’s some tiny village somewhere).
And there’s no Lancastershire. The county is Lancashire, and there’s also a town called Lancaster (pronounced as written).
Evidently the pronunciation of “Leominster” varies even locally in the area. I lived in Tyngsboro and Dracut, and on the (relatively rare) occasions when a native of one of those two places would refer to the town you could definitely hear the N. It wasn’t “Leminnnnnnnster,”, but it wasn’t “Lemster” either.
K, I’m from Beverly (bevalee) Mass, right next door to Peabody (Peebidy) Mass…Which, you’re right, broke off from Danvers (Dan-viz) Mass…which in turn broke off of Salem (kinda obvious, ain’t it? :)), Mass.
Here you go.
It’s Wistah. Simple as that.
Baw-stin
leminstah = Leominster
fall rivah
reveah = Revere
kwinzee = Quincy
Meffa = Medford
But then, that’s just my $.02…hehe
Truth does not change because it is, or is not, beleived by a majority of the people.
-Giordano Bruno
Smiling Jaws:
You have something there, with the Loew’s On-jay-leez thing turning into Law’s Anjelless.
The key is in common usage. And also in how English spelling became standardized more or less before pronounciation was. I would suppose place names tend to stay with traditional pronounciations more than other words.
As to common usage of Anglicised Spanish, I went to High School in a place everybody called “Saen Rawfell” of even “Sanurfell” …San Rafael, which ought to be pronounced in proper Castillian Spanish more like “Sahn RRRah-FI-ell”. And of course everyone knows Saen Fran-cizz-go, which should probably be done up more like Sahn Fron CEES coe. If an Anglo tries to do the “correct” Spanish, you know someone is putting on airs or is painfully politically correct. Either way, the first thing that pops into your head is “Y’all ain’t from around here, are you?”
I will be moving to the Worcester MA area in the next month or two. I plan to fly out there (from Portland) at the end of this month to look for a house. My (ex) wife is buying a house near Southbridge (pronunciation? Im afraid to ask), so to be near the kids (but not her) I’d want to be with 20 miles or so. If anyone has any opinions about places to live (or not live) or good or bad parts of town, or anything that would help me in my quest, I’d be really happy to chat with you. My email is jfm@unidial.com, and I’d be happy to call you for any ideas, and pay you back somehow for the help.
Here in Maryland we have:
Worchester County and
Dorchester County.
The spelling would make you think they rhyme, right?
No.
The first one is “Wus-ter”, the other is “Door-chester.”
Whatever…
I definitely intended to stay out of this and just watch the Merkins confusing each other, but… Well, just because it is the last post I saw, can I say to Tretiak that the Avon pronunciation is very clever, (more so than the English having a “River Avon” in fact) as it means “river” - in Scottish Gaelic “abheinn” and in Welsh “afon” although I don’t know the Irish Gaelic version. Now, just trust me that both of those do have a “v” sound, because I am going back to being a bemused spectator.
Yep. I’m from Charlton, originally. The R is optional. I used to drive through Lestah to get to Wistah, and sometimes I go see my aunt & uncle in Shrewsbury, only it’s Shoes-berry. Occasionally I take a trip to Aubu_n or Wobu_n…I waited tables at The Webstah House for a few summers, and my big brothah went to Clahk University.
Don’t say it WOOH-ster, that’s another town entirely, in Connecticut, I believe. Plus you’ll get your a-- kicked by some of the mullet-and-workboot sporting natives.
Next time I go home for the holidays I’ll have to look up all you Central Mass Dopers!