The other Arab countries should do what Germans did with the expelled Sudeten Germans from Czechoslovakia. And the Israelis did with the Jews expelled from Yemen, Egypt, Libya, and Iraq where they’ve been living since the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple. Or the Israelis did with the Falashas of Ethiopia.
The Arabs are keeping them in camps, in misery. The Arab governments very rarely do anything for their people. And while Iran isn’t Arab it’s similar. Why can’t the people afford a dozen eggs when the U.S. gave back $116 billion dollars plus ransom for captured Navy personnel.
It’s not Israel’s fault that they started fighting as soon as it was liberated.
The nuclear capable soviets who were already supplying the skilled air support to the PRC for the Korean conflict. And a Soviet regime that was still geared for the war and under the ever paranoid Stalin.
This only to engage in the fantasy of the game style total victory result.
Of course in fact in this world and timeline the Palestinians in the Jordan - 2.1 millions, who represent the majority of the refugees are full citizens (unless they have rejected the citizenship for political reasons).
The Lebanon, the 300-400 thousand, it is essentially the Maronite catholic christian factions (who claim not to be arabe but phoenician…) who consistently block a Palestinian citizenship idea as destablizing the citizenship balance between the ethnic-religious groups.
In any case the comment shows as much of the knowledge of the history or the situation as the OP about the Berlin case or the historical non knowledge in effect.
You’re right. We should have sent Superman in to finish the war.
Oh wait, Superman’s a fictional character. We had to fight in the real world.
Did you miss the part where I pointed out how we fought against the Chinese and North Koreans for two years without advancing? What part of that fits in with your belief that we could dictate terms to the Chinese or North Korean governments? How exactly were we supposed to be able to defeat and occupy China when we weren’t able to even defeat and occupy North Korea?
Or were we supposed to send in more troops? Where were those troops coming from? Should we have pulled forces out of Europe to send them to Korea? Why do you think Stalin wanted a war in Korea?
The reality was we sent all the troops to Korea that we could afford to send there. The real generals and the real politicians, as opposed to the ones sitting in armchairs fifty years later, knew that keeping the Soviets out of Western Europe and the Middle East was more important than fighting a war in Korea.
As for Israel, did the Israeli army take Cairo? Damascus? Amman? Riyadh? Baghdad? Tehran? Maybe you need to realize the Israeli army is not as overwhelming as you imagine it is. The Israelis won battles and then they were smart enough to stop when they reached their limits.
Yeah plus the US was quite clearly in the moral wrong there, supporting the powers-that-used-to-be in cancelling national elections (that had been agreed upon by all parties when the French finally fucked off) when it looked like the communists would win them by a landslide.
What else were the Vietnamese people supposed to do but start some shit ? Were they supposed to shrug and go “oh well, we’ll just keep the corrupt stooges almost openly in the pocket of foreign powers, then” ?
The corrupt christian minority elite specifically sponsored by the French to be very specific, since the religious particularism was important.
if the americans had not been so easily duped by the waiving of the anti commies flag, it would have been easy to see that the risk was not really the communists winning but the national feeling winning
so this is another "the arabs lost against Israel in the 60s and 70s so the Palestinians should suck it up and get out because they aint special " threads that the op delights in with “historical backup” on why he’s right this time…
War is as was said politics continued by other means, and politics as they say is the art of the possible. And I don’t think that combination of cliches is any more simplistic than your OP with due respect.
The reason for the ‘generosity’ of allowing the Soviets to accept Japanese surrender in 1945 above the 38th parallel in Korea was pretty simple. The Soviets’ indeed very limited, in time, participation the war against Japan from August 9th included invading Japanese occupied Korea. IOW the Soviet Army was already well inside North Korea by the time of the armistice August 15 and within an easy drive of the bottom of Korea before US ground forces 100’s of miles away on Okinawa at the nearest could be shipped there. In general the US could have played a more aggressive game of brinkmanship with the Soviets early after, and even during, WWII. There’s at least a kernel of a valid point there about a period of US WWII naivety about the Soviets. OTOH the US public wanted an end to the war, not a new war with the Soviets. So there was a real limit. It can debated if US leadership could have done more within that limit.
But as far as Korea, let’s remember the US (the Truman admin) was ambiguous and undecided how it viewed Korea in terms of US interests. Korea was a vassal state of the Qing dynasty for a couple of centuries before the 19th (not exactly ‘always’ a vassal or China or Japan) then a football among different powers at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th. But one of them was also Russia, prior to Russia’s defeat in the 1904-5 war by Japan.
Which is another theme of popular history blame over the Korean War: that public ambiguity by the Truman admin about the frontier of US defense in the Pacific, an infamous map leaving out South Korea, was a factor in encouraging Stalin and Mao to back Kim Il Sung’s plan for reunification by force.
Anyway when after the defeat of the North Korean invasion and the Chinese intervention, there was a serious additional trade off to be made pushing an actively participating China out of NK as compared to defeating the NK’s. Another poster stated it as if the UN force could not have pushed the Chinese further north. That’s not so. The CPV/KPA force in mid 1951 was in a bad way after the failure of its spring offensives with very heavy losses. It could at least in the short term in fact have been pushed further north perhaps to the narrowest part of NK straight across around Wonsan, or the old defense line from the Yalu’s mouth to Wonsan (the so called 1000-ri long fort, as opposed to the 10,000-ri long fort, aka Great Wall of China). The UN command decided not to. The question was whether to continue defending a further north defense line against repeated Chinese attempts retake it if that lasted for years. And what would have been the point? Again given the northern Yalu/Tumen border of NK wasn’t economically defensible by conventional means. And as mentioned the military force to sustain a longer or bigger war would have to come from a weakening of US/Allied defense somewhere else in the world, or putting the US economy and society on more of an all out war footing. But that was an even more unpopular prospect by mid Korean War than it had been by 1945.
And as to looking back to 1945-53 in terms of the current NK problem, nobody could look enough moves ahead to foreseeing a rogue regime in NK operating with sort of acquiescence but not really alliance with a nominally Communist rising China no longer exactly allied with a non-Communist declining Russia. Or to put it another way, the current situation with NK wouldn’t exist either if the US had just ceded Korea as a whole to the Soviet sphere in 1945, too many moves ago to say how that would have turned out by now.
See, what you guys don’t understand is that when red-Blooded Americans take a licking, they regroup and rearm and come back and kick ass. But when lily-livered yellow-bellied Foreigners take a licking, they knuckle under and hand over their wives and daughters and treasuries, and fuck off never to be heard from again.
This is known.
So when we win a war, we just win it, all it takes is overwhelming strength and power. And then we take the spoils of war, and everyone lives happily ever after.
After WWI the Central Powers weren’t exactly “left to their own devices”, but it could be argued that occupation of no more than small slices of enemy territory (and failure to march into Berlin) helped the bogus argument that Germany didn’t really lose the war militarily but was “stabbed in the back” by politicians, slackers, Jews etc. - a viewpoint that was exploited to create the conditions for WWII.
At least as much was demanded of France by Prussia after its victory in 1870 (heavy reparations intended to cripple it long-term, loss of Alsace-Lorraine). France paid off the reparations, reorganized and found a way to regain the international stage without trying to take over and exterminate its neighbors.
Oh really. I was born in Iran and find this questionable. We’re not Arab but “similar”.
I’d love to hear how we’re similar and suspect Ramira would find such a suggestion about us to be questionable as well.
To be blunt, I won’t say your assertion is completely asinine but IMHO the French, Spanish, and Italians have more in common than the Arabs and the Iranians.
As for the rest, no it wasn’t “ransom” but money legally owed.
No, France opted instead for the exploitation of my cousins and others of the family, to fund the plotting new wars against the Germans.
So much better, externalizing the resource extraction and killing of the brown peoples to fund the recycling of the warfare
the model of the extraction of hte punitive reparations is not something that was the successful action in 1871, it was part of the escalating cycle of the violent faiure that the europeans made the world suffer from as part of their senseless cycle of wars.
Kha, but I am arabephone, not arab by blood. And even more dissimilar, but all the untermenschen they are the same, to be firebombed or nuked if they get in the way.
Were we fighting with one, or two, hands tied behind our back?
Or were we supposed to send in more troops? Where were those troops coming from? Should we have pulled forces out of Europe to send them to Korea? Why do you think Stalin wanted a war in Korea?
The reality was we sent all the troops to Korea that we could afford to send there. The real generals and the real politicians, as opposed to the ones sitting in armchairs fifty years later, knew that keeping the Soviets out of Western Europe and the Middle East was more important than fighting a war in Korea.
Or was Israel stopped by “diplomatic pressure,” i.e. the U.S.? Surely Israel could have received recognition as the price of stopping.
Has the money been used to benefit the people, or only for corruption, war and terror? Why not hold Iran to the same standards to which you want to hold Israel?
Exactly what unfair standards do I hold Israel to. Do tell and be as specific as you can.
As for if I’m a more critical of Israel than I am of Iran. Yes, for the same reason I am of Turkey. They’re both western democracies and so I hold them to higher standards.
