It’s wonderful to have finally joined the Coalition of the Bombing the Shit out of Places already Bombed the Shit Out Of.
And to do so in a surprise attack after weeks of national debate and at the end of a 10-hour Parliamentary debate and vote. We definitely caught them napping.
So, in earlier attacks this morning, we showed 'em we will not cower to their brand of “fascism”, to the terror wreaked by entire populations suffering the PTSD we chose to inflict on them and their now dead families in the earlier invasion.
So yeah, we’ve bombed you to fuck in your same shambolic buildings already bombed by Russia and France and some Middle East alliance and maybe the USA, and now the UK.
So there’s that. The world has changed, this morning the enemy was dealt a heavy blow - to the odd SUV, and to positions it knew were about to be attacked and building already blown to fuck
What could possibly go wrong now. Yours, from a favourite target of reprisal actions, London.
Well, I was planning to do a bombing run this morning, but my F-16’s in the shop. Again. I’ll tell you, once they’re out of warranty, the damn things just start falling apart.
It’s something we keep hearing on this side of the pond too…apparently, there’s a special place somewhere in the Middle East that, when bombed, will eliminate all terrorism forever (and possibly make the world safe for Christianity). :dubious:
Why not? Beliefs cannot survive outside of a brain, and we can bomb the assholes who think that a theocratic dictatorship built on rape and genocide is a cause worth fighting for.
Indeed you can bomb the general desert area they might have been in at some point and tell the public at home what a great job you’re doing. Or a town square. You get more visual appreciation from that.
So far it’s proven to be a huge recruitment aid by continuing what we’ve done pretty consistently since 2003. We’re so great at making loudy noises: BOOM!
London has been and remains in the terrorist cross-hairs well before any bombing campaign began.
If the intelligence services had not foiled numerous plots we’d already have had scores more UK citizens slaughtered, a la Paris. If we bomb then ISIS will certainly try to kill UK citizens, if we don’t bomb then ISIS will certainly try to kill UK citizens.
If you are happy to let ISIS consolidate their power-base in Syria then you should be man enough to say so. If you think something else should be done then you can share your ideas and we can maybe discuss the likelihood for success.
Personally, I don’t see that any negotiation or diplomatic overtures will work with an apocalyptic death-cult who sees the mutual end to their and our existence to be warmly welcomed.
If we bomb then innocents will die, if we don’t bomb then innocents will die at an increasing rate and over a wider area for a longer period of time.
It is fine to be squeamish about it, it is a moral and humanitarian necessity to be concerned about loss of innocent lives. It is only human nature to hope for a non-violent strategy that will be effective.
I also think that, in this case and against this enemy we can’t give them any breathing space and that degrading their capacity by bombing them and their infrastructure is necessary and yes, I’m willing to face the consequences of that.
^Exactly this. It’s time to ask how this strategy is working. Has it ever worked? Seems akin to scratching a rash - only makes things worse. But hey, it appears like we are doing something!
ISIS should be easier to contain than the likes of Al Qaeda, since ISIS exists in a place (as opposed to just ideas). If we seriously want to snuff them out, we are either going to have to occupy Syria and re-occupy Iraq, or get more serious with the bombing and just nuke the area. Clearly, neither of those will happen, so the targeted bombing will continue until morale improves.
I think what we should do - given the glorious history of the past 12 years - is start to think a little less Neanderthal-like. We could begin by not contributing to providing ISI the oxygen of fresh recruits.
And then we need to think about how to fill an enormous power vacuum we created across different countries with something a little less Medieval. Have you heard any ideas beyond bomb the fuck out of what has been bombed the fuck out of already? If so, please man up and share.
No it isn’t. Conventional thinking has got us here, and is digging us deeper and deeper. It is squeamish to not think beyond age-old Imperial solutions.
It’s not a problem you solve, it’s a problem you manage, just like weeds in your yard. You don’t just throw up your hands and say “well fuckit, these weeds keep showing up, I may as well stop trying to rein them in.”
What reason is there now that didn’t exist before? Anyone inclined to hold British attacks on ISIS against Britain would already have been inclined to hold British attacks in ISIS in Iraq against Britain. And British complicity in the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. And British support for Israel. And… well, you get the idea.
To admit the deficiencies in your alternative plans. Assuming you agree there are some. There are definitely problems in bombing and no-one on the “pro” side has been trying to play that down. As others have said elsewhere, there are really no “perfect” options here.
So nothing of any substance then. You realise that all the time you hold off taking action (which doesn’t necessarily mean bombing) ISIS spread their influence. Tick Tock, Tick Tock, no hurry, take your time.
You’ve offered nothing other than a statement of the obvious and a list of what you wouldn’t do…what would you do?
I’m not sure the pilots are given such a crude brief. My understanding is that targets are carefully chosen, as they currently are in Iraq (yes, we are already bombing in Iraq, with some degree of success)
As far as I can tell we (and others) will have to degrade ISIS to stop their spread and at some point troops from some as yet defined coalition will have to go in.
I’m not sure you know what the word “squeamish” means.
It’s somewhat amusing that The Independent apparently couldn’t find any stock photos of British planes (those are American F/A-18s from the USS George Bush).