Yeah, I moved in next to the Crazy Cat Lady

[CannyDan]

@Rubystreak

Ya know, people around here do this all the time, doubt the word of someone who is trying to make their case in the Pit. Skepticism, it’s called. I didn’t call him a liar, but no, it doesn’t sound like something outdoor cats would do. I’m not obliged to take his word for it. Sorry if that bothers you.

Gratuitously? This is the Pit, and I think overall, considering the “Fuck you” that the OP threw out earlier, and some other nastiness in this thread not involving me (see the Contrapuntal v. billfish dustup), that you’re getting all huffy over nothing much.

You’re plenty unpleasant yourself, Dan. You’re making a lot of assumptions about me and my “aberrant psychology” based on the fact that I disagree with you about how to deal with the neighbors. The cats are incidental, really, because, and listen carefully: I don’t believe in allowing pet cats outdoors, and I do not think it’s OK for feral cats to wander the neighborhood, unneutered and unvaccinated. I’ve said this over and over and you’ve ignored it so that you can keep making your point. The bottom line is, the OP wants to have good relations with his neighbors, so he shouldn’t take your hard ass, “my way is the RIGHT WAY to deal with these cats, or else!” stance. Behavior like that is the hallmark of a jerk who is bound to have problems in the neighborhood.

I hope that clears things up for you.

If we actually doubt the OP’s word, then why are we bothering to have this discussion? Let’s just be skeptical of the cats themselves, and we can close this thread.

Note that I have not been a party to epithets launched. I’m not required to curse you just because it is the Pit. If you want to return such nastiness, return it to the sender, not just the next poster you reply to.

As for what’s clear, what’s clear is that he already has problems with the neighbors, problems that he did not cause, and he has been quite restrained in his actual dealings with them even while he explored his options and vented his spleen on a message board.

It is also clear that you apparently completely agree with me (“I do not think it’s OK for feral cats to wander the neighborhood, unneutered and unvaccinated”).

What is not clear is why you insist that, despite my being in the right, and given the OP’s testimony regarding his actual, quite reasonable, personal interactions with the neighbors, I am a “hard ass” or a “jerk” for offering the OP my support in his endeavor to relieve himself of an unwanted nuisance, or he would be for accepting it.

And, by the way, I haven’t renamed you Streak.

[Rubystreak]

@CannyDan

If we actually doubt the OP’s word, then why are we bothering to have this discussion? Let’s just be skeptical of the cats themselves, and we can close this thread.

Being skeptical of cats is a bit silly.

Note that I have not been a party to epithets launched. I’m not required to curse you just because it is the Pit. If you want to return such nastiness, return it to the sender, not just the next poster you reply to.

I did not curse you either, my dear. I think you posted something that was silly and disingenuous. If you feel that’s insulting and beyond the pale, then don’t refer to my opinion as evidence of “aberrant psychology,” OK? Because that’s just as offensive as anything I’ve said to you.

What is not clear is why you insist that, despite my being in the right, and given the OP’s testimony regarding his actual, quite reasonable, personal interactions with the neighbors, I am a “hard ass” or a “jerk” for offering the OP my support in his endeavor to relieve himself of an unwanted nuisance, or he would be for accepting it.

Wow, you’re not great for reading comprehension when you’re mad. I never said YOU were a jerk, but you’re advocating a hard ass, one right way only, way of dealing with this. If the OP takes this attitude towards his neighbor, THEN he will be acting like a jerk in their eyes, very likely. What if the lady doesn’t want to get rid of the cats? What if she agrees to neuter them (if she already hasn’t) and vaccinate them instead? And it’s legal to have outdoor cats? Can the OP still insist that the cats be removed? I don’t think he can, legally. What say you then, Dan? That’s where I think your unreasonableness comes in. There’s more than one right way to deal with this, if neighborly peace is your goal and not BEING RIGHT. You don’t seem open to that idea.

And, by the way, I haven’t renamed you Streak.

Aaaand now I have no idea what you’re talking about. Care to explain?

[Pazu]

@Rubystreak

Hmmm, why DO people have a different attitude toward cats than they do towards dogs, goats, and pythons? Why don’t you tell us, Dan?

Better yet, why don’t you tell us, since there’s clearly an obvious answer I’m not seeing.

[THespos]

@Rubystreak

Aaaand now I have no idea what you’re talking about. Care to explain?

My guess is that he’s referring to you calling him “Dan” for short.

[THespos]

@Carol_in_South_Shore

If you had not seen it with your own eyes I would have blamed squirrels. Sounds like they might be trying to make a shelter in there – kittens on the way? I hope you mention this to the neighbor – maybe that will speed up getting the cats neutered.

Brainstorming – could there be mice in your RV? Anything that would excite and tempt the cats?

Regarding mice, I suppose its possible, just not very probable. The travel trailer is a couple years old and it’s pretty tight. It’s been locked and left on the side of my old house (the one I moved from) for the past several months. We retrieved it and brought it to the new house recently.

I’ve been in there a couple times to flush out some lines, make sure everything’s working, etc. and haven’t seen any signs of mouse intrusion. We’re going camping in mid-July, and if my wife sees a mouse in there, there’s not going to be any family camping for a VERY long time.

[Rubystreak]

@Pazu

Better yet, why don’t you tell us, since there’s clearly an obvious answer I’m not seeing.

Get glasses.

CannyDan, I’m sorry if calling you Dan is a problem for you. Didn’t mean to offend by saying that. People call me Ruby all the time. Figured it wasn’t a problem. Won’t do it again if you dislike it.

[Freudian_Slit]

I’m really not getting all the defensiveness for the cats. I don’t get the impression that the OP hates cats or nature or wildlife. He just doesn’t want to deal with them on his property. I don’t live in a house with a yard, but if I did, I’d be pissed if my neighbor thought it was cool to let his animals, dogs, cats, whatever, damage my property, and I love animals as a rule. Stuff like, “Well, cats don’t usually claw up RVs” or “If the cats go, owls will probably leave dead mice on his doorstep” (which is why we have some great gorillas lined up who will die as soon as winter comes) seem totally irrelevant. The cats ARE clawing up the RVs and the OP seems down with owls. It’s just these specific cats he objects to.

This whole argument is reminding me of how some threads (not on the SDMB specifically but on msg boards as a rule) on making the obese buy two seats devolves into “Yeah, but non-fat people often take up too much room, especially men who spread their legs as if their junk is too big!”

ETA: What is this obvious answer about cats? Can you stop being coy for a minute?

[Pazu]

@Rubystreak

Get glasses.

Got some, thanks. Still not seeing it.

Now that Freudian Slit has also asked, why don’t you just enlighten us myopic peons?

[Contrapuntal]

@Rubystreak

It’s not clear to me what will happen next with that, since removal is probably not an option for the lady, though THespos says he has since backed off his stance that destruction is the only option.

That was never his stance, and you’re a fucking liar if you insist it was.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Pazu

Got some, thanks. Still not seeing it.

Now that Freudian Slit has also asked, why don’t you just enlighten us myopic peons?

And without being rude or defensive please, that’s a dear.

[CannyDan]

@Rubystreak

Being skeptical of cats is a bit silly.

…and so is this discussion…

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
I did not curse you either, my dear. I think you posted something that was silly and disingenuous. If you feel that’s insulting and beyond the pale, then don’t refer to my opinion as evidence of “aberrant psychology,” OK? Because that’s just as offensive as anything I’ve said to you.
[/quote]

One man’s insult is another man’s snark. <hand wave> My dear.

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Wow, you’re not great for reading comprehension when you’re mad. I never said YOU were a jerk, but you’re advocating a hard ass, one right way only, way of dealing with this. If the OP takes this attitude towards his neighbor, THEN he will be acting like a jerk in their eyes, very likely. What if the lady doesn’t want to get rid of the cats? What if she agrees to neuter them (if she already hasn’t) and vaccinate them instead? And it’s legal to have outdoor cats? Can the OP still insist that the cats be removed? I don’t think he can, legally. What say you then, Dan? That’s where I think your unreasonableness comes in. There’s more than one right way to deal with this, if neighborly peace is your goal and not BEING RIGHT. You don’t seem open to that idea.
[/quote]

My comprehension is just fine, thanks, and I’m not the slightest bit mad. I’m not angry, irritated, or annoyed. Perhaps when I start to use ALL CAPS you may find me mildly piqued. But thanks for your concern.

Recall the poor OP? His goal was to be relieved of something that is at best a nuisance, at worst a danger. He dealt with his problem in a civil manner, as befits a good neighbor. So presumably peace is at least a part of his overall goal. Still you question the testimony of his own eyes regarding his RV. You insist on repeatedly chiding he and I both on some moral requirement you have imposed else we, jointly or individually, be deemed asses or jerks.

You offer a scenario, to neuter and vaccinate the cats, that fails to address his stated problem. And then you raise a strawman, having “outdoor” cats removed. No one has said that the cats are legally required to be indoors. But they can indeed legally be barred from the OP’s property, as could any other trespasser. They can stay outdoors all they or the neighbor lady like, but when they step onto the OP’s property he can have them trapped and removed. How is this unreasonable again? It is his property, and he would be entitled to do the same with any other interloper.

For that matter, you assume the neighbor lady actually wants those cats hanging around. Maybe she merely feels guilty, and has no sufficient incentive to take further action. Maybe when her husband tells her that the OP objects she’ll shout “Hallelujah! Let’s finally get them out of here! I’m tired of their crap in my flowers too!”

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Aaaand now I have no idea what you’re talking about. Care to explain?
[/QUOTE]

You got it eventually. And no, it isn’t a problem for me normally. It is though an intimacy I do not believe you have earned, given the vigor of your posts to me.

Oh, and **Freudian Slit, Pazu, Euphonious Polemic **and I all still wonder about that too-obvious-for-us answer. Reveal it, pretty please?

[Cheesesteak]

@Freudian_Slit

I’m really not getting all the defensiveness for the cats. I don’t get the impression that the OP hates cats or nature or wildlife. He just doesn’t want to deal with them on his property.
ETA: What is this obvious answer about cats? Can you stop being coy for a minute?

There are two aspects to this. First, and most obviously, cats are traditionally companion animals, and have a long standing place of respect in human culture. To equate them with vermin or pests is going to rub a large number of people the wrong way.

Second, there’s also this assumption that feeding an animal means you take some measure of ownership for it and the neighbors are responsible for the mischief the cats get into. I do not think most people would suggest I own or have responsibility for birds, if I put out a bird feeder and bird bath, yet if you do this with a cat, suddenly you are its keeper. Also understand, if I put out a feeder and bath, I’m doing so because I like having birds around, and I care about their well being, and I won’t react well to you trapping and killing all of them because they crap on your car, even if I don’t feel that I own them.

[Rubystreak]

@CannyDan

One man’s insult is another man’s snark. <hand wave> My dear.

Ah, so you can be as rude as you please, but if I call you Dan, it’s a big problem. Got it. Double standard. Good to know.

Still you question the testimony of his own eyes regarding his RV.

Yep, sorry.

You insist on repeatedly chiding he and I both on some moral requirement you have imposed else we, jointly or individually, be deemed asses or jerks.

See, now I really don’t think you are reading very carefully. You are the one claiming the moral high ground, about how right you are, and how that trumps neighborly peace and concern. My supposed moral requirement, if you can even call it that, is to be willing to compromise with people, even if you’re right and they’re wrong. Presumably the OP is stuck with these neighbors for years. Sometimes you have to suck up and be nice even if others annoy you. I see no acknowledgment of that from you whatsoever, though I have acknowledged the validity of your points.

You offer a scenario, to neuter and vaccinate the cats, that fails to address his stated problem. And then you raise a strawman, having “outdoor” cats removed. No one has said that the cats are legally required to be indoors. But they can indeed legally be barred from the OP’s property, as could any other trespasser.

I think some of his stated problem is bullshit, I think I’ve made that clear. I’ve also made it clear that I think that he has to weigh his perfect scenario(zero interaction with the cats) with neighborly peace. If you don’t think that’s reasonable, well, it’s you that’s unreasonable. You can’t always have things your way.

They can stay outdoors all they or the neighbor lady like, but when they step onto the OP’s property he can have them trapped and removed. How is this unreasonable again? It is his property, and he would be entitled to do the same with any other interloper.

Do you really think this is reasonable? You are telling the OP to go buy some traps, trap cats whose ostensible owner is next door, and remove them, thus alienating the neighbor. Other options for keeping the cats off the property have been set forth, and the OP seems interested in trying them. YOU are the only one steadfastly insisting on removal. THAT is what I think is veering into jerk territory.

For that matter, you assume the neighbor lady actually wants those cats hanging around. Maybe she merely feels guilty, and has no sufficient incentive to take further action. Maybe when her husband tells her that the OP objects she’ll shout “Hallelujah! Let’s finally get them out of here! I’m tired of their crap in my flowers too!”

Maybe. I guess the OP will find out.

You got it eventually. And no, it isn’t a problem for me normally. It is though an intimacy I do not believe you have earned, given the vigor of your posts to me.

Oh, get over yourself.

Oh, and **Freudian Slit, Pazu, Euphonious Polemic **and I all still wonder about that too-obvious-for-us answer. Reveal it, pretty please?

I think you know the answer, as do they. Seriously, you say I’m being obnoxious. Look at yourself right here.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Cheesesteak

Also understand, if I put out a feeder and bath, I’m doing so because I like having birds around, and I care about their well being, and I won’t react well to you trapping and killing all of them because they crap on your car, even if I don’t feel that I own them.

Good points Cheesesteak, however in cases where you are causing a disturbance to your neighbors through your own behaviour, I’m afraid that how you may feel or react about the resultant actions is not really of prime concern.

Your bird example reminds me of a friend whose neighbor was in the habit of tossing mounds of old food (like stale french fries scavenged from her work at a restaurant) all over her front lawn for the crows. Dozens and dozens of squacking crows. This did not sit well with my friend. While she did not trap or shoot the crows, she did have a word with the city health people, who shut the crow feeding operation down.

The neighbor put our food because she liked having crows around. She cared about their well being. She didn’t react well to being told to stop. Tough noogies on her. She was in the wrong.

[THespos]

@Cheesesteak

There are two aspects to this. First, and most obviously, cats are traditionally companion animals, and have a long standing place of respect in human culture. To equate them with vermin or pests is going to rub a large number of people the wrong way.

Well, dogs are companion animals, too. I doubt too many people have problems eliminating feral dogs if they were roaming around.

I guess the difference is that cats are traditionally thought of as being cuddly, cute and non-dangerous.

Second, there’s also this assumption that feeding an animal means you take some measure of ownership for it and the neighbors are responsible for the mischief the cats get into. I do not think most people would suggest I own or have responsibility for birds, if I put out a bird feeder and bird bath, yet if you do this with a cat, suddenly you are its keeper. Also understand, if I put out a feeder and bath, I’m doing so because I like having birds around, and I care about their well being, and I won’t react well to you trapping and killing all of them because they crap on your car, even if I don’t feel that I own them.

I guess the differences are:

[ul]
[li]Birds are part of the makeup of the natural wildlife. They’re not someone’s former pet or a descendant of a former pet.[/li][li]Birds aren’t dependent on humans for their food source[/li][li]Birds would otherwise be there if humans weren’t[/li][li]Birds don’t typically claw at RVs or leave rodent parts around[/li][/ul]

[Cheesesteak]

@THespos

Well, dogs are companion animals, too. I doubt too many people have problems eliminating feral dogs if they were roaming around.

I guess the difference is that cats are traditionally thought of as being cuddly, cute and non-dangerous.

Actually, feral cats are traditionally thought of as being <20lbs, solitary, and avoid humans, whereas feral/stray dogs can be significantly bigger, are pack animals, and occasionally show aggression towards humans. In other words, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone being mauled to death by a stray cat.

[CannyDan]

Well, now we’ve really raised the bar. It isn’t enough that they’ve frightened **THespos’ **wife, shit in the flower beds, left the remains of furry forest creatures all over their porch, or clawed up the family RV. But they didn’t maul anyone to death, so that makes everything all right.

THespos, I hope you are properly comforted and instructed by all these exhortations to live and let live. No reason at all for you to have peace at the expense of your neighbors’ convenience. You might as well start feeding the cats yourself, and save the woman next door all that trouble.

And heck, when the other neighbor decides to park his boat trailer on your lawn because it would otherwise block his car’s access to his garage, well, surely you’ll be accommodating, won’t you?

And when the people behind you decide that their 3:00 AM garage band practice at 110 decibels now needs to include laser lights and a pyrotechnic display, you’re down with that too, right?

All in the name of neighborhood harmony and all that, eh, THespos? There’s a good chap.

[THespos]

@Cheesesteak

In other words, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone being mauled to death by a stray cat.

Do they have to maul somebody to death to be considered dangerous? What about if they just bite or scratch? I do have an 11-month-old toddling around.

[Rubystreak]

@CannyDan

Well, now we’ve really raised the bar. It isn’t enough that they’ve frightened **THespos’ **wife, shit in the flower beds, left the remains of furry forest creatures all over their porch, or clawed up the family RV. But they didn’t maul anyone to death, so that makes everything all right.

And you have the nerve to be insulted when someone calls you silly and disingenuous. Excluded middle, anyone? Really, get off your soap box. Compromising with neighbors doesn’t mean being a door mat. Your strawman argument in your last post is laughable. Scoffing at and vilifying compromise isn’t a noble stance. Give it a rest.

[Cheesesteak]

@CannyDan

Well, now we’ve really raised the bar. It isn’t enough that they’ve frightened **THespos’ **wife, shit in the flower beds, left the remains of furry forest creatures all over their porch, or clawed up the family RV. But they didn’t maul anyone to death, so that makes everything all right.

No, dimwit, I was responding to THespos’ question as to why feral dogs get treated differently than feral cats. The fact that cats are orders of magnitude less dangerous than dogs is the reason.

Feral cats tend to be very fearful, and run away from people rather than confront them. THespos, as the father of a 12mo old, I have to say that the chances your child is attacked by a feral cat is similar to the chances he’d be attacked by a squirrel. If I had feral dogs running around, I wouldn’t let my kid outside unless I was armed well enough to take the dogs out.