Jesus, just kill the fuckers when they enter your yard and toss their feral corpses onto the neighbor’s porch.
And then invite them over for dinner.
So I’m a silly, disingenuous dimwit? Thanks, guys! I’ll be sure to attack you rather than debate your argument next time. This is, after all, The Pit. No room for factual analysis here!
Despite that, you may want to look here for a factoid relevant to one danger posed by cats. Briefly,
THespos, keep your child away from the cats, and away from their feces, and away from any fleas or ticks they might have harbored. Same goes for you and your wife, by the way. Rabies isn’t the only serious and significant human health hazard commonly transmitted by free ranging cats. Wear rubber gloves when removing cat kills from around the house. Wear them also when gardening, where cat poop may be encountered. Check yourselves and your child carefully for fleas and ticks whenever you lie or play on the lawn or brush against your flowers or bushes.
Oh, yeah, don’t bother to get the RV fixed. The “badgers” that really did the damage (liar, liar, pants on fire, it couldn’t have been the cats!) will just do it again anyway.
You others, tell me again why he should “compromise” by allowing his neighbor’s nuisance to endanger, or at least to affect the life style of, his family in their own yard and on their own porch.
And I am sure that the street out front, with its cars and trucks, is orders of magnitude more dangerous than a few cats. But then, nobody has redirected that traffic into **THespos’ **yard. But I suppose that, if someone did, he should do the neighborly thing and just get the hell out of the way.
You all just don’t seem to get the fact that this is a created – and controllable – nuisance slash potential danger caused by and continued by the neighbor that impacts upon our OP in the reasonable enjoyment of his own property.
I recognize that neighbors need to treat neighbors in a (duhh) neighborly fashion. So when your friends park on my lawn to attend your party, or when the smoke and soot from your badly-ignited BBQ blows straight into my open window, or you start your lawnmower at the crack of dawn on my only day off, or some other occasional nuisance reminds me that I am surrounded by other humans living their own lives, I’ll ignore it. Just as I expect my neighbors to ignore my own occasional boorishness affecting them.
But if your friends park on my lawn every day, or you keep a smudge pot of old tires burning to fend off the mosquitos 24/7, or you decide that :every: 5:30 AM is leaf blower time, then you should expect me to first mention it to you, explaining my objection to your unacceptable intrusion into my life. And if that doesn’t resolve it, then you can expect me to seek enforcement action from relevant authority.
If the shoe fits.
We did try to debate your argument. You continue to ignore the content and argue against straw men of your own creation.
What brilliant advice. We were all sure that THespos was snuggling the kitties and kissing their little pink noses before you offered this gem of incisive reasoning.
If you could stop being such a raging, hyperbolic, preaching dick for five minutes, and debate what I actually SAID instead of your own straw man, you’ll see that I have said, over and over, that THespos can and should demand that the neighbors neuter and vaccinate their cats. That is a minimal requirement for having an outdoor animal, and failure to comply is a health risk. He can and should do everything in his power, non-lethally, to keep the cats off his property. He seems to be doing that, and does not seem to be endorsing your scorched earth policy. Good for him.
But it’s SO MUCH MORE FUN to argue against yourself, where you’re always right and everyone else is crazy, that I’ll just let you get back to it. You seem to really be enjoying yourself, Dan. Do please create more imaginary scenarios involving barbecues, badgers, lawn mowers, and burning tires, that have nothing to with anything but your own self-righteous, bloated indignation.
RubyStreak, did you ever answer the question? I think people generally see cats as more passive than dogs–they tend to go from place to place in general without people getting too upset. They’re also cuter than pythons or goats. In general, having an outdoor dog (or any animal) that goes on other people’s property isn’t cool, but it’s okay with cats. I figured this is because they’re generally less destructive. In this case, though, there are a lot of them and they are being destructive.
Yup.
Yes, this is true, and is why THespos probably doesn’t let his toddler play in the street, yet may very well let his child play in his yard, even though there could be a cat somewhere in the vicinity.
Adults look at the dangers of the world, assess them, and make a decision based not on a binary “is there a theoretical risk” but on the perceived magnitude of that risk. 6 feral cats is not a significant risk, they run away when people are around and will avoid contact, even with a toddler. 6 feral dogs probably don’t consider your toddler (or you) as something to be feared, THAT is a risk, and is exactly why feral dogs are almost always rounded up in short order, and feral cats are not.
Seriously, are you going to badger (heh) me with this inane question? I generally like you, FS, so let’s not be bitchy. Cheesesteak already addressed the question, didn’t you read that? You know what the difference between a feral cat and a wild dog is, or a python on the loose, or a fucking goat standing on top of your car. If I really, really, need to tell you, you’re not as bright as I thought you were. You’re at about CannyDan level, not a good place to be. If you think that I think outdoor cats are “OK,” then you haven’t been reading along, or you have been buying into Dan’s straw man, which bears little resemblance to what I’ve actually been saying.
I don’t think feral cats are dangerous. But I do think these ones are being destructive and annoying, and that any animal that does that should be removed, regardless of whether or not it’s normally a pet. If the neighbor woman wants them to be her pets, she should take steps to make sure the animals are protected. I don’t see why an animal has to be tolerated just because it isn’t dangerous.
Everybody say a little prayer to the Invisible Pink Unicorn or Flying Spaghetti Monster or whatever that my Scarecrow sprinklers arrive soon.
Thanks.
It doesn’t have to be tolerated, but situations that are dangerous get treated very differently than situations that are annoying, and deservedly so.
This whole digression stems from my assertion that some people get mad about eliminating feral cats because they are pet type animals instead of wild animals, and THespos mentioned that feral dogs aren’t given the same latitude. Feral dogs don’t get the same latitude because feral dogs are significantly more dangerous than feral cats.
If there were a half dozen feral dogs (fed by his neighbor) on his property, do you think THespos would have come here wondering what to do? I don’t think so, I think he’d have called Animal Control the first day, gotten the dogs rounded up, and not given a crap whether it offended his neighbor, and not a single person here would have faulted him for it.
Of course, in a discussion like this, mentioning that dogs are way more dangerous than cats morphs into “you have to let your property be overrun by cats, because they can’t actually kill you.”
Exactly. You can choose the nuclear option, but some people, including your neighbors, might think you’re being unfair or unreasonable. If you don’t care, that’s fine, but then, you’ll have neighbors who, rightly or wrongly, think you’re an asshole. Now, if you enter into a dialogue, nicely, with totally reasonable requests, like “please neuter them, and vaccinate them,” and “you realize I’m going to do everything in my power to keep them out of my yard, and it would be great if you could help with that in any way you can,” you’re more likely to have a harmonious neighborhood environment. How this can POV can be distorted into it being OK for neighbors to burn tires on your lawn, I leave others to suss out.
When people choose to see issues in black and white, excluding all other possible POVs, and desire to turn a reasonable assertion into a ridiculous straw man, then yeah, there’s no difference between a bunch of cats and a pack of wild dogs, or a python in your yard.
**Cheesesteak **and Rubystreak, do you kiss your mommas with those mouths? You really seem unable to speak without ugly invective. Does it annoy you that I don’t reply in kind? Oh yes, this is the Pit, where the point isn’t to fight ignorance, but to shout someone else down.
When discounting the potential dangers to the OP’s family posed by free ranging cats you didn’t even bother to hand wave to my cite. Better think again, because your easy dismissal is part of the reason that rabies transmitted by cats continues to increase.
And you still haven’t told me how neutering and vaccinating these cats is going to keep them off the OP’s porch or out from under his RV.
But it’s all about neighborhood harmony, right? So the OP should go next door, hat in hand, and politely explain
"I’ve invested in water-squirting scare crows, and in soaker pistols, and I now spend a significant portion of my copious free time patrolling my yard. For you see, there are several cats, and just as one gets turned away by the scarecrow, another makes its way boldly through my flowers at the other end of the yard. And by the time I get to him, and chase him with my squirter around the flower bed, over the porch, into the bushes on the other side, and finally, off my property to yours-- well by then two more of the cute little beauties have strolled up to my child’s sandbox, where they are making preparations to take a shit. And, oh damn, there goes that ripping sound from under my camper again. Those damn squirrels must be back, heh heh.
"And I know that you have invested heavily in these cats, what with that expensive cracked water dish from the garage sale and all. What are my expenses for otherwise-useless chattels like soaker cannons and watery scare crows and whatnot, plus shipping, compared to your outrageous out-of-pocket for a daily can of cat kibble?
"I also can’t find any fault with the committment you display, given the seconds you spend every day opening that can then placing it outside your basement window. Why, I am really enjoying my whole yard now that I get to spend so many hours daily running back and forth through it, chasing cats, and filling water appliances, and getting wet myself, and picking up bloody rat gibblets and bird heads, and all. I’m sure it will be ever so much more joyful, even invigorating, come winter. I do so love a good soaking in the snow!
"Why, I’ll just bet that the freezing kitties that you won’t take into your house, after they eat your canful of tuna of course, thanks again for that, will spend all their free time trying to get inside my basement or my garage for warmth. Or sleeping on the engine block of my car. Hope they’re careful about belts and fans and all, because I’d sure hate to have to scrape the remains out of-- er, ah, I mean I hope they stay safe in the trying environment under my car hood. I’ll be sure not to start the car until I’ve accounted for all the cats.
"Is there anything else that I can do to ensure protection of your tender sensibilities and the maintenance of neighborly harmony between us? Because I don’t want to come off as a jerk, and get the whole block up in arms against me, by suggesting for even a moment that my ever so small, almost vanishing, issues with you would be completely alleviated by you simply keeping your cats anyplace in the whole wide world except on my property.
"But I know that is just too, too much to ask of you after all you’ve done already. So I’ll just take my leave and get back to filling water guns. Thanks so very much.
“And thanks especially to Rubystreak, for keeping me from becoming too much like that asshole CannyDan.”
M’kay?
It’s not the same as a python or a wild dog. But it’s irritating and gross and neutering/vaccinating them isn’t going to make it better. I don’t really see how it’s a compromise for the OP.
Hahahaha! The irony, it burns! Don’t like the Pit? Stick to MPSIMS. Don’t scold us like a little old lady about our language, considering your invective isn’t exactly butterflies and rainbows. You refuse to engage in rational conversation, instead choosing to distort, twist, and be nasty about your opinion, which apparently is the only right one to have. It’s kind of boring, really.
Yeah, we have. You’re not very good at reading, but that’s not my fault. You ignore what we say so you can argue the point you want to argue. If you call that fighting ignorance, well, I’m not surprised.
Yeah, good job. You should write scripts for Hollywood. You’re so good at making shit up. Do you ever get altitude sickness from being way up there on your high horse?
See, I knew you could figure out the difference between a feral cat and a wild dog. It wasn’t all that hard, really. The OP is taking steps to remedy the problem of the cats on his property in a neighbor-friendly way. Neutering and vaccinating them will decrease the public health risk. That should take care of the majority of the problem. Why insist that he go further if he doesn’t want to?
Considering that your own cite says that wild animals like raccoons & skunks account for more than 10x as many rabies cases as domestic animals, and cats are only part of the domestic animal group, AND Rubystreak and I both support vaccinating feral cats against rabies, I don’t see how it’s even worth waving my hand at.
But the problem is he doesn’t want them on his property period.
He seems to be coping with his inability to have things exactly as he wants them like an adult. Good for him.
Rubystreak, I’m the one being rational; and I really don’t care to scold childish behavior. Continue your petulance if you wish.
Cheesesteak, you still miss the point, deliberately or through failure in comprehension. More individual animals of other species have been tested and found to have rabies than cats. But since people encounter few wolves, skunks, raccoons or bobcats but may encounter and potentially interact with many, many cats, it is these that are of particular concern from a human health perspective.
Here the CDC says
And here (!!PDF!!) are 20 year statistics for Florida. Cats with 270 cases come in well behind raccoons (2,497), not far behind the iconic carrier, bats (373), but much higher than dogs (59) or even skunks (24).
You both, who are so aghast at the idea of the OP demanding relief from the annoyance (or the manace – I’ll give you either) by insisting to the neighbor that they be confined at home, tell me, how much more or less insistant is he allowed to be in demanding they be neutered and vaccinated and re-vaccinated as required? Is he allowed to raise neighborhood discord over neutering and vaccinations? What if neighbor lady demures? Indeed, what if she not only refuses to take the trouble or bear the expense, but what if she actually objects to either or both for some religious or hare brained pseudo-medical reason?
I know, maybe she will have an epiphany, invite him in for tea and biscuits and phone her vet in his presence. We won’t know until we try, I’m sure you will say. But somehow, given her (pick one or more)
[ul]
[li]lack of empathy for her neighbor,[/li][li]blindness to events outside her building walls (for surely there are rat parts and cat shit liberally scattered around her own property as well), or[/li][li]overwhelming indifference to her cats and her neighbors both[/li][/ul]
I don’t really expect a positive (from the perspective of the OP anyway) outcome. So, if she doesn’t want to keep them off his property, and she doesn’t want them neutered, and she doesn’t want them vaccinated, is he still supposed to just shut the fuck up and ‘deal’? At what point exactly do his problems and concerns count for more than the neighbor’s or the neighborhood’s tender sensibilities?
Maybe the OP should just take the cats to his own vet, have them neutered and vaccinated, bathed and de-parasitized, then bring them home and install them in his own household. It would probably be cheaper and easier than the course of action you are demanding of him.
This shouldn’t be required of him though. He did not create the problem, and he does not abet it. If his neighbors do indeed take offense at his desire to be free of someone else’s cats, it is they who should step up and take responsibility for them.
I have the utmost confidence in our OP. I’m certain he will winnow the wheat from the chaff in the advice this thread provides and avail himself of reasonable actions, just as he has done so far. Unless some novel issues arrise, I’ll leave it at that.
It seems like it. Though I just don’t see how it would have been immature to request that the cats be either removed or taken inside.
See, I think you are scolding, and simultaneously petulant. You can save all that.
This is why we lose our temper with you. No one is “aghast.” NO ONE. Obviously it would be ideal and fantastic for everyone involved, including the cats, if she would do that. But realistically, if she were able to or interested in doing that, she would have done it, no? So what’s the point of saying, “Well, she SHOULD!” Of course she should. But she probably won’t, and the OP asked for advice, not wishful thinking.
I think he is perfectly within his rights to demand neutering and vaccination. If she demurs, then she is being unreasonable. The OP is then free to take action to make those things happen, or have the cats TNR’d, because the cats then are a much more serious problem. What, did you expect us to say no, the neighbor lady doesn’t have to do anything? That’s what your straw man would say, I realize that, but not me.
Yes, god FORBID you give the woman a chance to do something before you condemn her!
Wow, you are twisted. THespos just moved in. He had one conversation, with the husband, making him aware of the issue. How can the neighbor have empathy until she knows someone requires it?
Maybe she is glad the cats are killing rodents on her property. I’m glad when my cats do it.
Of course you don’t, because you’ve already constructed the scenario in your head and can’t see how anything could possibly deviate from it. Why not just blog this conversation instead of having it with real people, since you aren’t really interested in their side of it anyway?
No.
When the cats are a public health risk, and she refuses to take any action other than feeding them when asked to by THespos. When that has transpired, and it has not yet, then the OP can move into Phase 2.
Which is what, exactly? See, this is why I don’t think you have been reading anything other than the posts in your head, because where I come from, conversation is free. The course of action YOU are proposing, wherein he goes ahead and removes the cats himself, is actually more costly than what I’m suggesting, both monetarily and in goodwill from his neighbor.
And you never will. Despite requests to explain exactly how it is a compromise, and requests to explain why it is the OP’s job to “get along” and not the job of the neighbors who are in fact the ones creating the problem, Rubystreak prefers to keep that information to herself.