Yes - Let's All Be Punctual and Polite

The BBQ Pit
1

And this from the business front:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2027&ncid=2027&e=4&u=/chitribts/20050410/ts_chicagotrib/workforceneedspolishusbusinessesdeclare

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Fuck You, Mr./Ms. American Business.

When the average Joe or Jane, whether blue-collared or white-collared, starts to see that the average cocksuck CEO is no longer ass-fucking the system for million-dollar bonuses, 8-figure salaries and golden parachutes, and other eye-popping indulgences, maybe they’ll start to give a fuck.

Until then, get used to it. What comes around goes around. The system is broken, and the fixes will need to come from the top, not the bottom.

2

I dunno.

Some people absolutely astound me with their lack of work ethic. A friend of mine was pissed off one day and I asked why. He told me he’d gotten written up at work. I asked why. He said because he was taking an unauthorized smoke break. I said, “Well, I suppose they could have given you a warning first, but you really shouldn’t be doing that.” He said they had given him a warning, the last time they caught him doing it. :smack:

But he had convinced himself that they were being unfair.

There’s a guy where I work who doesn’t bother to call in when he’s not going to show up. Granted, he normally does show up, and on time. But it’s really not hard to pick up a damned phone.

I’ve heard many stories about people who just don’t show up for work, or who show up halfway through their shift and don’t think anything is wrong with that because, hey, they showed up, right? I’ve heard of people getting in verbal arguments with bosses and coworkers and nearly getting into physical fights with bosses.

(Maybe this is wrong of me, but I sorta like it when there are so many people with no work ethic. It makes me look like a star employee just because I show up to work everyday on time, and don’t argue or complain.)

3

Quote “Yes - Let’s All Be Punctual and Polite”
Yes, those are two of the many things you must do if you want to work for me.

I don’t need to give my money to someone who is late and annoying.

4

Dear booka:

All the people in Bangalore, India show up to work on time. They call in when they’re sick. They know how to work under supervision, they know how to work in teams, and they don’t show up drunk after lunch. Eventually, they’ll soften their accents.

I’m currently deciding between you and them. Just sayin’, is all.

Sincerely,
The Top.

5

I show up on time and do my job because that is what I agreed to do when I signed on.

Some of us are as good as our word. It’s something adults are supposed to do.

6

If you are giving money away, I will be happy to be punctual and polite.

But let’s not mince words: you’re employing these people to do work which you wish to have done. You aren’t giving them a damn thing, except the opportunity to earn a paycheck.

7

The only time I ever didn’t show up without calling in first was when the car broke down and I was stuck for over an hour on the side of the road with my mother. (It was years ago). By the time the tow truck came, I was a hot, sweaty mess and my shift, which was only a short one, was half over, so I just called and told them what happened. (I wasn’t about to take another shower, fix myself up AGAIN and then go to work for what would amount to about five minutes).

8

Well, this is an interesting debate. On the one hand, we have the employees who know that their employers consider them disposable, and feel zero loyalty and motivation. On the other hand, we have employers who have every right to expect minimum “soft” skills from the employees they hire to put in a certain amount of hours, doing certain duties.

Maybe the employers should be taking courses on “employer readiness”, with an emphasis on not laying people off with no warning because the profits (note: PROFITS, not income) aren’t as high as they were expecting, treating employees as human beings, not human capital, recognizing that human beings are different from each other and we don’t all fit in the same work hours, that longer and longer work days for the same pay are not good for anybody in the long run, et freakin’ cetera. It’s a two-way street, baby, and someday they may have to learn that. But I doubt it. Not when there are 4 billion people in Asia willing to work for five cents a day.

9

booka, you need to go back and actually read the article. Then you need to think about the last time your purchased a product.

The article actually noted on multiple occasions that the groups pushing for improvement in work skills included the unions as well as employer groups. In other words, the current work force is tired of shiftless bums wandering into the work place and not pulling their load. This is not just some uninvolved CEO whining that he hasn’t scraped the last penny out of his overburdened workers, this is a declaration from everyone within American industry that we are going to cut our own throats if we cannot get more new workers to improve their work ethic.

One thing that I have noted over the passing years has been the number of times that I received shoddy service from uninvolved workers. This has been most noticeable in retail outlets where I come face to face with such people at the time when I am actually offering to support their livelihood with a purchase, but I have also encountered slack attitudes among production workers and office personnel. Whether it is a crappy design, a sloppy assembly, or an uninvolved sales clerk, each encounter makes it more likely that I will take my business elsewhere.

Now it is true that in the last 12 to 14 years, executives of major companies have shamelessly gamed the system to steal from the shareholders. However, this is a problem that must be dealt with in the board rooms and stockholder meetings across the country. Regardless how much the CxOs have diverted to their pockets in the last decade and a half, failing to perform one’s job will not improve one’s own livelihood. If you cause your company to lose business, the executives will bail, floating to a soft landing beneath their golden parachutes, but the stumblebum worker will simply be out of a job (along with forcing his or her more industrious co-workers out into the cold, as well).

10

I am so damn sick of people who aren’t punctual. I’m a breakfast cook. I get out of bed every morning at four o’clock. I bicycle or walk two miles to work, five days a week, in all kinds of weather. And I punch the time clock at 5:30 AM. Every damn day. I’ve overslept only once since starting my current job last July. The only day of work I’ve missed was the day I had jury duty - and my boss and coworkers knew about that a week in advance.

By the end of my shift, at 1:30 PM, I’m pretty tired. But I don’t get to actually clock out until 1:45 or 2:00, or even later, because the fucking night cook hasn’t shown up yet. Did I mention that I walk and bicycle to work? That’s because I don’t have a car. The night cooks have cars, and still can’t get to work on time. Yo, Chef! You say you couldn’t get here on time because you threw your wife out and you have custody of the kids, and you have to get them places? Guess what? There are a whole bunch of waitresses here who are single mothers who have to do the same thing, and they get to work on time. What’s your excuse again?

My (former) other breakfast cook - the guy who worked my days off, and backed me up on the weekends - finally got himself fired. See, one Saturday morning, he didn’t show up until a half-hour before the end of his shift. That’s when I learned that his wife was filing for divorce, and he felt too rotten to work. (Talked to his wife - she said he was the one who was filing.) So, okay, I understand. I’ll let it slide. He talked to the chef, and the chef told him to go ahead and take a week off and get his head together. Cool enough.

So I worked ten days in a row to cover my shifts and his shifts. I didn’t mind - the guy was my friend, and I wanted to help. But then… the next two months became a steady parade of this guy calling in “sick”, or claiming “family emergencies”, or just not showing up (“sick” and “family emergency” being clever euphemisms for “horribly hung over”).

One night, on my day off, I decided to go down to the bar to sing some karaoke. Guess who I found sitting there, good and drunk? Yes, it was him. I said to him, “Dude, don’t forget you’ve gotta be at work in the morning!” “Oh, I’ll be fine, as long as I get my four hours of sleep.” He was still there when I left at midnight. The night chef got to come in and cover dude’s shift the next morning, because dude had called in with yet another “family emergency”. I made sure that the chef learned exactly what kind of emergency it was. Besides, I can’t stand it when the night chef has to come in and work breakfast - he’s not a breakfast cook, and all he does is piss off my regular customers.

Meanwhile, I’ve been at this job only eight months, and I’ve already seen a promotion and two raises. Why? Because, quoting the manager, “You’re the only one we can count on.” These other cooks are all grown men in their thirties. They should know the drill by now.

11

Dear Top,

We have shown up for work on time, called in when we’re sick, know how to work under supervision, know how to work in teams, and don’t show up drunk after work. And we have American accents (for all that it matters).

Despite all this, you still keep sending our jobs overseas, and yet still have the gall to ask us to buy “American.”

What gives?

Sincerely,
The people who do the actual work around here.

12

booka, I put in 8 hours a day, doing my job because that is what I am getting paid for. I am working too hard, and getting stress headaches from it, because they keep putting too much work on me, but until I can transfer out or find a different job, I will keep doing it, again, because it is what I am getting paid for.

The thing that pisses me off most about my job isn’t the extra work I do, or the fact that they expect me to be there the entire 8 hours. It is the goat-felching, lazy ass, sons of bitches that wander off for a smoke break every hour. The ones that head off for break 10 minutes early, and walk out the door 5 minutes before the buzzer go off. They finish their order, then wait 15 minutes before telling me they need more materials, then write on their paperwork they didn’t make rate because they were waiting on me!

I don’t like the way the executives pay themselves $7 million dollar bonuses, while we wait 2 weeks past the deadline to find out whether they will approve a 2.5% annual raise. I don’t like the escalating insurance costs and lessening of benefits. But that doesn’t make me nearly as angry as the shitheads that stand around with their thumbs up their ass, complaining that the company wants them to work :eek: for their pay.

13

Did you read the article in your OP, the lack of this is sort of what it’s about.

I think it’s high time we taught our high schoolers skills that actually help them in the workforce. That should be the goal of school, give these kids the skills they need to succeed. If it is clear that some skills are lacking, try to work it into the curriculum.

14

“I didn’t know I was supposed to call in sick” is the excuse people give when they really mean “Fuck you and fuck this job. I didn’t feel like calling, asshole.”

And who the hell doesn’t know that they’re supposed to show up on time for work? Did they manage to make it through twelve (or more) years of school without ever becoming acquainted with the concept of tardiness?

Or politeness? “Gee boss, I thought you wanted me to be incredibly surly and sometimes scream obscenities at the customers.” Nobody is that fucking stupid.

It’s not that members of the workforce don’t know; it’s that they don’t care. I doubt the proposed instructional videos and classroom workshops are going to be changing that anytime soon.

15

I have a hard time getting worked up about this. Prior to my current job doing computer programming and DBA shit, I worked a couple jobs (construction-type stuff and tutoring disabled students) where showing up on time and respecting the opinions of your superiors (the latter being a much bigger deal on the construction bits) was VERY important.

Now I work in a group where only a couple people regularly show up on time, and many take very long lunches, ninety-three different smoke breaks, and give their supervisor lip if they get called on any of it. And God forbid anyone admit their opinion isn’t the right one and actually trust someone who has more experience in a given area. It’s discouraging to work in an environment where SO much more work could get done if people had the basic skills discussed in the article. Yes, large corporations tend to be sociopathic entities, etc., but that doesn’t give you license to shirk your responsibilities. Adopting bad work habits as a form of protest is just stupid.

That said, I think manhattan’s letter should have been written more like this:

Dear booka:

All the people in Bangalore, India show up to work on time. They call in when they’re sick. They know how to work under supervision, they know how to work in teams, and they don’t show up drunk after lunch. They’re used to a much lower standard of living, so we can pay them a great deal less. They don’t expect health care for themselves or their families. They don’t expect a retirement plan. They don’t expect maternity leave. They don’t expect payed vacation. And, best of all, there’s an awful lot of them. Far more of them then there are positions. That means that they’ll never expect any of these things to change, and, even better, it means if they ever try to unionize we’ll just can 'em all and bring in a fresh load. All this means higher profits for our shareholders! Basically, booka, you’re fucked. I hear Wal*Mart is hiring.

Sincerely,
The Top.

16

A couple of years ago, I was an A/P supervisor. I had two people under me. One guy was awesome. Always showed up 10 minutes before his shift, got everything done I asked of him. The other guy was a horrible slacker. Always (and I mean always) late. One time he emailed me at 4pm to tell me he wasn’t showing up for the 9-5 shift.

Eventually, my boss noticed I was getting bored and offered me a DBA job. When she asked me who I thought should replace me in A/P, who do you think I suggested?

Since then, guy #1 has moved on to another job after doing the A/P supervisor job for two years (they hired a temp to replaced him). Guy #2 is in the exact same place he was when he worked for me. I don’t know why he hasn’t been fired yet. It’s not like I didn’t try. Apparently he’s got ADHD or some such bullshit.

17

Yes, i read that article, and i know exactly what it’s about. But my point was a broader one.

The fact is, Americans are among the hardest workers in the world and, despite jeremiads like that article, tens of millions of Americans are sober, punctual, committed, responsible workers who believe in giving a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay.

And yet, despite this, American companies have been exporting jobs by the millions to places with no minimum wage and non-existent health and safety standards. And, contrary to the implications of manhattan’s epistle, this wouldn’t change even if every single American worker were a paragon of virtue and a boss’s dream.

The notion that American jobs are being exported because Americans have no work ethic is a lovely little ex post facto rationalization that might make the boards of directors and the shareholders feel good about themselves, and might even convince some Americans that they themselves to blame for their own unemployment, but the fact is that these companies have clearly demonstrated that they need no such reason to move jobs overseas.

I’m not begrudging the people of India or China or Mexico or wherever their jobs. They’re workers too, and just trying to make a living. And some free market economists argue—although i tend to disagree—that everyone ultimately benefits when the global economy has this sort of diversity and mobility. All i’m saying is that blaming American workers for the departure of their own jobs is something that only the most deluded or self-centered corporate flack would do.

And, on preview, metacom’s revision nailed it.

Sorry, but i’ve never considered that the function of schools should be merely to turn out polite and punctual drones who know how to turn up on time and say “yes sir, no sir” to the boss’s demands. Schools should turn out well-rounded, educated, intelligent human beings. If they do that, then everything else, including notions like responsibility and consideration for others, should follow.

18

Uh uh. The problem with well-rounded, educated, intelligent human beings is that too many of them only feel responsible and considerate toward their employers (a) when workplace conditions approach the ideal or (b) when work is vital and really needs getting done. Because a company is not a democracy and not all work is vitally important, employers need people who will put up with a certain amount of unneeded stress and meaningless tasks.

19

Happily for me, that wasn’t the OP. The OP was specifically resisting the values being discussed in the linked story, apparently because of the alleged excess compensation of executives. The OP specifically said that people would “start to give a fuck” only when compensation for others came down. You can check for yourself. “Until then, get used to it.” “(T)he fixes will need to come from the top, not the bottom.”

This attitude is more pervasive than you think. I was reading just the other day that '98, GM actually had to shut a plant because of a Packers-Vikings game. Too many people just didn’t show up for work at all. A big focus of that story was the popular bar in the middle of the freaking parking lot where many workers go to get their drink on at lunch. Actual quote from the owner of the bar: "“They only have less than a half-hour for their breaks. If they can get two or three beers down, that’s about it.”

I talk to CEOs who prefer to hire veterans not for any patriotic reason but because they’re trained to get up in the morning. And yes, I know companies which have outsourced to India or elsewhere not for costs (the savings turn out to be less than one would think, particularly for low-value work like call centers) but for reliability.

One might reasonably argue (as some in the article did) whether the kinds of values discussed in the article ought to be developed with state funding, with company funding or by job candidates on their own. But someone who believes that those values are not important frankly has no place in a modern industrial economy. Or any other kind that I can think of.

20

In other words: “tough shit” makes the world go 'round.