It sounds as though you’re getting very tangled up with the questions of sexual orientation and gender identity. Let’s see if I can help sort things out.
There are two things that you need to bear in mind. First, physical sex, gender identity, and sexual orientation are all different things. A person can have any combination of these.
The second is that a person will identify himself or herself according to his or her gender identity. In other words, a transgendered person will almost always identify their sexual orientation with reference to their gender identity.
Take me, for example. I’m assigned male based on my genitals, I identify as a man, and I’m almost exclusively attracted to other men. Therefore, I identify as a non-trans gay man.
If I had been assigned female at birth, but I still identified as a man and were attracted to men, I would still identify as a gay man – a trans gay man.
Likewise, a woman who is exclusively attracted to other women will identify as a lesbian, regardless of whether she’s trans or non-trans; and a woman who’s attracted to guys will identify as heterosexual, regardless of whether she’s trans or non-trans. The original equipment doesn’t enter into it; what counts is gender identity.
Does that make more sense?
You don’t know how very, very happy I am to know how much you have progressed beyond that. The world can be a very scary place for queer and trans people sometimes, and I’m really pleased that you are so interested in learning about these issues and being so open with us.
I’m hearing, too, that you’re worried about giving offence. Given how you’ve prefaced your remarks thus far, I think that everyone understands where you’re coming from, and you’re very unlikely to give anyone offence even if you were to make what would otherwise be considered a faux pas. So please feel comfortable.
(I should have said that since these issues are so personal, I’ve simplified them by using the most concrete and polarized examples. They’re not meant to represent everyone’s reality, so you shouldn’t be too surprised if someone identifies themself in a way that’s confusing to you. The rule that will keep you from ever going wrong is, always identify a person the way that they identify themselves. That’s a really important way to be an ally to queer and trans people, and it sounds like something you’re already prepared to do.)
Number six, have you considered being a bit more of a Tom Boy?, learn some martial arts and you’ll not only feel more confident, you will be stronger for lifting things and likely to survive better if something nasty did happen. And dressed as a Japanese anime School Girl, no wonder people were looking hitting on you (lucky they didn’t ask if you wanted to play hide the tentacle)
NotNow is nicely answering a question posed in another thread, in Great Debates - namely, “can one be nice but disagree with homosexuality?” In this case, it’s not so much a matter of disagreement as it is someone coming to terms with their own lack of knowledge/understanding of things. I hope that I’m regarded as a “queer-friendly” person, even though there’s still much I have not learned. Because I’m not knowledgeable, I’m aware that I may inadvertantly cause offense with my word choices and personal questions, so I tend to err on the side of caution there, excusing myself repeatedly.
It’s hard to overcome upbringing, societal expectations and one’s own prejudices (however they came about), and you should be commended for trying to learn more and striving to be a good person, and I mean this in all areas - it’s not just sexuality, but other potentially sensitive topics like race, religion and politics. You’re not required to agree with or “convert” to anyone’s way of thinking or being, but to at least try and stand in someone else’s shoes and get a new perspective should be regarded as positive.
There are at least three components to human sexuality: physical sex, mental (or brain) gender, and orientation.
Sex is determined by your genes and assigned based on your physical makeup.
My sex at birth and until the age of 28 was male because I had XY chromosomes and a penis and testicles.
There ares some physical and genetic disorders that can lead to one’s physical and genetic sex not being a perfect match. I had a medical disorder that led to my body producing a much lower than normal level of testostone. This lead to many of my masculine features not developing fully, something that I am now profoundly grateful for, because it made my transition much easier. Most MTF transsexuals, however, look like any other man before they begin the transition process.
Gender is how you identify yourself, or if you prefer, how you feel. There is some research that seems to indicate that gender is a physiological property of the brain, that there are male brains and female brains, and that one’s brain gender is determined sometime before birth and is fixed.
From the time I was first able to understand the concept that boys and girls are different, I identified myself as female. Because this made others uncomfortable, and because the desire to please others and fit in with my social group was a big part of my personality, I pretended to like being a boy. I did this so well that I convinced myself I was one until my late 20’s.
Orientation is which sex you are attracted to. Orientation is an entirely separate part of the sexuality equation from identity. They tend to be lumped together, but they are separate issues.
There are at least three sexual orientations:
Heterosexual (straight): People attracted primarily to those of the opposite sex.
Homosexual (gay): People attracted primarily to those of the same sex.
Bisexual (bi): People attracted to both sexes.
All of these are natural, normal ways that the human body deals with sexual attraction. Homosexuality is not a disorder, either physical or psychological, but a normal variant of the range of human sexuality.
This differs from gender dysphoria, or transsexualism, which is a medical disorder.
In a transsexual, the brain’s gender does not match the body’s sex. This can cause severe distress leading to depression and even, quite often, suicide. I managed to find relief by dressing up in women’s clothes, but the relief was only temporary.
If you want to have clear definitions, here it is the closest I can come:
gay: A man attracted to other men. Also used to describe lesbians. lesbian A woman attracted to other women. straight A person attracted to people of the opposite sex.
These definitions don’t change when you add being a transsexual to the mix:
A MTF (male to female) transsexual is a woman. If she is attracted to men, she is straight. If she is attracted to women, she is a lesbian.
A FTM (female to male) transsexual is a man. If he is attracted to other men, he is gay. If he is attracted to women, he is straight.
In my case, I began the process attracted to women, and was in a long-term, committed, sexually active relationship with a woman. As I near the other end, I remain attracted to women.
I am a woman attracted to other women, therefore I am a lesbian. That I began life as a physical male has no bearing on this.
I hope that helped.
I can’t address that particular situation, but I might be able to help you understand why a person might not share this information.
When I was courting (love that word, by the way), my wife, I thought of myself as a straight male transvestite. I know now that wearing women’s clothes was just a way for me to find some relief from my essential transsexuality, but at the time I was trying very hard to project a male persona to the world.
I knew that if we were to be intimate, it would be necessary to tell her at some point that I was a transvestite–I didn’t own any men’s underwear, shaved my body, leg, and armpit hair, and The problem here is deciding when. There is the very real possibility when revealing this to a potential mate that she will be repulsed and head for the hills. This fear of rejection makes it very easy to put off the moment as long as you can.
There is also the fear of discovery. I didn’t want anyone other than a lover to know I wore women’s clothes. If I were to tell a potential lover, and she left me because of this, or the relationship didn’t last, there would be someone out there who didn’t like me, and who knew a secret I wanted to keep.
What if she got so angry with me that she outed me to my family or my job? What if she told two friends, and they told two friends and so on. Pretty soon everyone in the entire city would know, and they’d all be pointing and laughing when I walked by. I’d lose my family, my job, my friends, and be lonely and miserable for the rest of my life.
Of course that’s far fetched, but it’s the type of process that goes on–you can build up the negatives to such enormous proportions that you don’t take the risk. You hide who you are, or you protect yourself by never letting anyone in.
I would hazard a guess that neither I nor matt nor 6 is offended in the slightest:)
It’s a catchall sometimes. In other words, folks say “the gay community” and mean allllllllll sorts of people. It’s just easier to say “the gay community” than to say “the gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, genderqueen, questioning, bicurious, transexual, transvestite, straight-but-not-narrow, straight ally and anyone else who wants to align with us community”. (That’d be one hell of an ugly acronym…)
Heh. WIMB is close to womb, though what sort of joke that makes is beyond me as I’ve only been awake for … an hour? Feels like less:) 6 is a woman in terms of gender - how she feels - and a man in terms of her genotype - her genes, basically. Also her phenotype, but that’s changing as things get removed or changed.
The thing to remember is that sexuality is in terms of gender, not sex. So it’s perfectly legitimate (though to a lot of people confusing as hell) to be physically a man and yet consider one’s self a lesbian because one also considers one’s self a woman in terms of gender. To take that further, it’s possible to be a phenotypically spectacular woman and be attracted to men and really really gay. What matters when figuring out sexuality isn’t the plumbing, from what I know on this subject, but what one feels right having down there, so to speak.
It might help you to think of gender and sex like this:
Gender=mental male/female. How you feel.
Sex=physical male/female. How you look.
Anyway. Someone both physically and mentally male who is attracted to men is a gay man. Someone physically female and mentally female who is attracted to women is a gay woman (lesbian).
Completely correct.
No. Gender identity and sexual preference are not inextricably intertwined (you can have one without the other). A gay male with a male gender identity - “I should have a dick. I feel comfortable in jeans, a tuxedo, pants in general, and wearing a bra doesn’t feel right. Being called a man doesn’t feel misplaced and I don’t go to sleep hoping I will wake up and have different plumbing.” - gay. Attracted to men. Gender identity is what body you feel comfortable in (as in existing, not as in penile penetration;)). Sexuality, to look at it from the easiest (ha) angle, is what body/ies you want to be with sexually. So a man who is not trans but is attracted to men is homosexual. A man who is not trans and is attracted to women is heterosexual. A man who is trans and is attracted to men is transgender and straight. A man who is trans and is attracted to women is transgender and gay.
It’s a lot easier to do these sexuality paragraph proofs than to go up against someone who has a firm belief (often rooted in something completely irrelevant) that w’re all intrinsically disordered, etc. You presenting this is … wonderfully refreshing and I wholly welcome anything more you post:)
Oh, that’s GD territory, I think. I think stuff that might cause discord etc. should be discussed before committments are made, but then I’m one with stuff that might cause discord and I’d rather not get in deep with someone and risk the sort of trouble that “not discussing things in depth” would create. That’s true for any number of “troubling” things, mind. If I’m getting to know someone whose parents want their (adult) child never to have a relationship, I’d like to know that so I don’t surprise the person by showing up at their parents’ house.
Regarding your “but I feel …” statement … that puts things in a difficult place. 6 is able to be open here … but were any of us to meet her casually and were she single, she might be utterly petrified of saying “Look, um … I hope you don’t want any biological kids, cuz I was born without a uterus.” Or anything deeper than that. I think it’s a wise thing to do to tell the person before things get serious, but I’m also in a point in my life where it doesn’t present the same mental stress etc. to talk about the fact that I’m bisexual. Sexuality status, in my experience, is a hell of a lot more accepted than transgender status. I’ve come out to people after knowing them for a matter of seconds. So me saying “Yes, I think it should be discussed” is as much a reflection on what I think as it is a reflection on the ease I have discussing myself.
6, I would amend your definitions as follows:
"If you want to have clear definitions, here it is the closest I can come:
gay: A man attracted to other men. Also used to describe lesbians.
lesbian A woman attracted to other women.
straight A person attracted to people of the opposite sex."
becomes
"If you want to have clear definitions, here it is the closest I can come:
gay: A [physical] man attracted to other [physical? I would think…] men. Also used to describe lesbians.
lesbian A [physical] woman attracted to other [same as above] women.
straight A person attracted to people of the opposite [physical] sex."
Those of us who are bisexual are mercifully free from this physical trapping, or at least moreso than are the rest of you. I just want to play;)
Synonyms. An acronym is a word formed from the letters of a phrase, like scuba (self-contained underwater breathing apparatus) or radar (radio detecting and ranging). A synonym is two words that have (almost) the same meaning. I’d argue that there’s no such thing as a true synonym, but that’s a whole 'nother topic.
Sorry to be all nitpicky, but I figure if you’re getting a crash course in human sexuality, I might as well throw a quick vocabulary lesson into the mix. It’s not like you can ever know too much, I always say.
Also, as a proud member of the GLBTGqQBcTsTvS-B-N-NSA&AEWWtAw/U community, it’s refreshing to meet someone who is willing to confront their preconceptions the way you have been doing here. Between you and prisoner6655321, I don’t think I’ve felt this optimistic since last November. Thank you.
Number Six, I had some “edgy” username possibilities I wanted to run past you. The ones I thought of really focused on your identity as trans- rather than feminine, however, and I realized they might offend. Apologies in advance if these rub you the wrong way – feel free to call me a poor misguided jerk who doesn’t understand you at all. You can even slap me if you’d like.
You could be little-o: a numeral 6 without the tail – transforming the “male” name into both a more feminine shape and a mildly racy reference to orgasms. Your wife could then be standing-o, o-baby, or other similar puns.
You could remain Number Six, which would imply that you have always been Kaitlyn on the inside, and Number Six was just the name you chose here (regardless of what gender other people think it implies). Your wife in that case could be ChickWithSix, which is, I admit, a tawdry pun. Not sure if you feel like “reclaiming” an abusive term by mocking it, though – you’ve sure had enough pain already!
You could be LadyCharlotte, the sixth daughter of the Earl of Oxford (there’s a “six” reference), and your wife could be Charlotte’sWeb, Charlotte’sFemme or even Charlotte’sWuv. Similarly, CatherineParr was Henry VIII’s “wife Number Six” – you could call your wife HenriettaVIII. Bonus: some sources spell this with a “K” so you could be relatively close to your real name!
Again, my apologies if any of these offend you. My goal was to find you a playful name that you could grow into, which still celebrated your story.
I’m finding it hard to get on the Board lately, as my personal and professional lives are falling into brightly-colored pieces, but I just wanted to welcome you to the club and give you your cell phone (lesbians get toaster-ovens, we get cell phones. Just promise not to yell into it on public transportation).
I remember when I was where you are–back in 1977–and I think, "how did I ever get through that period in my life?!
Let me preface this by saying that I have nothing against tomboys. I like tomboys, some of my best friends are tomboys. I fully support equal rights for tomboys, and even stumped for the TRA (tomboy rights amendment) in the 70s. I’m a lifetime member of FFT (friends and family members of tomboys). I was part of the early movement to start TFA (Tomboy Femme Alliance) clubs in my high school to promote the understanding and tolerance of tomboys. If someone wants to be a tomboy, more power too her, and I wish her only happiness and a long, fulfilling, tomboy life. I plan to have this inscription on my tombstone when a die: A True Friend to Tomboys Everywhere.
Having said that I think I can honestly answer your question this way:
Good god no.
I love being a girly girl.
I love the clothes, the variety of textures and fabrics and colors, the lace trim and ruffles, the different styles and types and lenghts of skirts and and blouses and dresses, the hundred different types and styles and heel heights of the shoes I get to try on, the weights and colors and textures of the nylons and tights and pantyhose. I love going to the mall and spending the whole day trying on clothes and shoes, even when I don’t buy anything.
I like the way a man will sometimes walk a little bit faster so he can get to a door and open it for me. I like having my groceries carried out to the car, and having a waiter pull out my chair for me, and that little getting halfway out his chair thing my brother does whenever I get up or sit down at the table.
I enjoy how the boys at the comic shop check me out and look away when I catch them, and apparently think I don’t know.
Part of this is a residual effect from when I first started going out dressed up and I was scared to death that I would get made. Somewhere in the back of my mind, there’s still a little voice telling me somebody’s going to be able to see something, someone’s going to figure it out.
I know this is irrational, but the very idea of being mistaken for male is very unpleasant. I want everything about how I present myself to the world to say, “I am a girl!”
[Note–do not assume that this is typical of mtf transexxuals–it’s not. Just as natal women vary from very feminine to more masculine, so do transwomen. I just happen to be way into the femme range. I’ve learned in therapy that I’ll probably come back a little towards the center in a bit, but I’ll probably always be well on the feminine side of the divide]
I’m in a practical self-defense for women class.
You are, of course, correct.
At the time, though, I was thinking of it as dressing up as a superhero, not necessarily an anime schoolgirl. I chose my costume because it’s pretty conservative compared to most Western female superhero costumes, and easy to make with off the shelf clothes. Yomiko Readmore is actually a teacher. The costume consisted of a white blouse tied at the throat with a red cravat, brown leather corset-vest, loose, knee-length black skirt, opaque white tights with black slip on flats, enormous black, square-rimmed glasses, and a brown leather book bag on wheels. I had most of these things in my closet already., and once dressed, the only skin exposed was my hands and head. To me, this was dressing conservatively.
Part of the problem is one of perception. When I looked at the booth babes or other girls in costume at conventions, it was primarily with envy, with just a little bit of lust mixed into the picture. So I thought that when guys looked at the girls in costume, they were doing what I did even when I attended conventions as a man–evaluating the costume. I thought that this was how guys thought, because that’s how I thought. The obvious problem with this way of thinking is that I never was a guy, so the way I thought when I had a guy’s body can’t really serve as a basis of comparison.
I didn’t think about the effect the combination would have on a guy, which was foolish. Just being dressed up as a fantasy character could have been causing the guys to, well, fantasize. Mrs. Six was attracting attention looking a lot like this (but with a darker complexion and bigger boobs). She wanted me to go as Boomer from Battlestar Galactica, which I could easily have pulled off. But, ugh, camoflage pants, combat boots, and a leather jacket? You have got to be kidding me. Especially since, in the back of my mind, theres still that littl voice telling people are going to know. I’ve never been made in public, not even before I began treatment, and I look a lot more feminine now. Mrs. Six tells me she doubts I could pass for male now even if I wanted to. But that voice is still there.
I obviously don’t think like your average heterosexual guy (in part because - hey, I ain’t one!) but … leather and a corset? In combo? Yes please. I do not typically evaluate costumes as I think you’re using the word (unless it’s something just absurdly horrible, like, lime green tights and pink chiffon leggings or something similarly absurd) and then I’ll just think it’s funny. I know about as much about fabrics - and probably care about as much - as you know about the 1995 Atlanta Braves (to use just one random example chosen based on the fact that I’ll often use that one. I could just as easily use as an example cooking good ramen). My impression is that your average straight guy - if such a beast actually exists - is probably thinking more “leather corset …” than “the white tights really draw the eye up to the corset.”
I’m not offended. I would, however, prefer a name that clearly identifies me as being female without the emphasis being on my being a transsexual. Yeah, that’s been the emphasis here and in a lot of other threads the past few days, but just as in real life, I want to be treated like any other woman. A transsexual is what I am, and I’m not ashamed to admit that, discuss it, and help others to understand it, but it’s not who I am, or at least as time goes by it will become less and less an issue. Or so I hope.
I’ve considered just saying that Number Six is a Battlestar Galactica reference rather than The Prisoner. I’m still thinking about it.
The irony is that in it’s original intent–as a reference to The Prisoner–it was a reference to my gender identity problems.
doh doh doh… I will use preview I will use preview I will use preview… At least gauder’s (sp?) law didn’t bite you!!! Though, I always thought the constant correction on this board was a bit (heh) overboard. If the idea gets out there, run with it.
Anyhow, things are very much so clearer now, and Im running out of questions that havnt been answered or I am too embarassed to ask. Though as well, Im really not wanting to let this thread die, its become something that’s completely changed my view of the LGBT community. I still could never do that (be LGBT) myself, the thought is unbearable, but at least I can see where my fellow planet-mates are coming from.
As well, since a bisexual person (can I just say bi?) posted here, I should probably mention that I never had real issues with them. It probably has more to do with teenage boy fantasy than anything. Hehe…
[tangent] maybe if I got a gay friend, he could finally help me dress ok [/tangent]
Now I know we have discussed how I need to be more understanding of different people and such, but I think the door swings both ways here (that’s not a bi joke).
[enter NotNow from two years in the past]
I know one of my biggest fears with knowing a gay man is he might be attracted to me, and if he ever told me, I’d probably be very offended, even though it’s meant as a compliment. I’m not even sure this is a problem in general, but it did happen to me once a couple years ago, which kinda actually really made me hate gay people. I mean, how dare they question my sexuality like that? I’m straight damnit, I like monster trucks and tanks, I want to kill bears and drink beer (when Im 21). I want to join the wrestling team, but I’m no fairy damnit!!!
[/time warp]
Im pretty sure im not the only person who would have that reaction, and it’s probably my own personal issue, and insecurity. I just hope the LGBT’s in this world can understand where straight people have issues with them. Yes, you cross, confuse, a blur lines of sexuality** that I don’t understand, and I can at least try to accept that, but dont pull me in too. I hope that you can learn from me how to better get along with people that don’t understand you. I don’t really know how to say it, and Im most certainly not accusing any of you of crossing this line. Though, from personal experience, when that line is crossed, ESPECIALLY in teenage years, its damaging beyond imagination. It also certainly doesnt help the image of the LGBT’s.
**I originality wrote reality here instead. I thought better of it, but once again, it shows where I fail to still accept you 100%. Im sorry…
Thank you. I haven’t gotten my toaster oven yet. Do I get both? Or do I have to choose just one? Decisions, decisions.
I’d just like to point out to lurkers that the cell phone thing here is a joke, but it’s one of those “It’s funny because it’s true” type jokes. I have gotten the “You must carry a cell phone with you at all times when you are out alone” speech from my self-defense instructor, in group, from my wife, and from my brother.
I’ve never really thought too much about how hard it could be to adjust to the female body, given that, y’know, I’ve always had one.
Do you have more strength in your legs than you did before? Personally, I have a quite weak upper body, but I’m stronger than The Cody with I move things using my legs.
So, there’s safety and strength. What other kinds of differences have you noticed? Including how society treats you differently male v. female.
Who better to ask about gender inequality than someone who’s been both?
Have you had any harrasment based on your sexual orientation? Before, no issue. But now that you’re a lesbian, have people treated you differently that way?
To all:
Is there any such thing as, er, people not caring what gender they have? I’m bisexual, and I would absolutely love to be a man for a little while, to see what it’s like (but wouldn’t care either way if I got stuck in that gender). I feel like it doesn’t even matter what gender I am - that I could be happy either way. Or is this all just some kind of gender confusion?
“[C]ould never do that” in the sense that it seems foreign to you? If so, that’s much the same about how I feel regarding being straight. I’ve been out for four years now and been attracted to men in some significant way probably since my sophomore year of high school, so it’s difficult to remember back to a time when I wasn’t attracted to men. The idea just seems … so utterly unlike what I’m used to.
I (am bisexual and) have no issue with the shortening of the term, particularly since I fling it about so often myself. I am now curious, though, about this teenage boy fantasy you mention … care to go more into detail?
I’d offer to help, but I never got that part of the package. I’m also not very effeminate and I love sports. That all, combined with the fact that my wrists are rather strong, means I really don’t fit folks’ pictures of what a gay/bi guy is “supposed” to look/act/be like. Comes in handy.
Eh, hell, it’s an amusing one so long as it isn’t meant to offend. I remember being at a dopefest and playing wiffleball. I was batting from the left side of the plate and having no luck at all, so I switched sides. Weirddave was casually watching and half-shouted out “Hey [pun], I didn’t know you were a switchhitter!” It was funny as hell! (Of course, the fact that - my recollection - the next ball I hit happened to go buzzing by his head just complicated matters:D)
I would have been … I’m not sure if a mixture of crushed (that anyone would think I MIGHT BE GAY HELL NO I AM STRAIGHT DAMMIT!) and enraged (see previous) adequately describe how I was back in high school (I should mention here that back in high school I thought it was perfectly normal for a guy to be attracted, in some small way, to other guys. I didn’t try to confirm this, Og bless.). Here’s the thing: if you don’t wear a sign (or something similar) saying “Hello, I am a homosexual” how are we to know without asking?
That being said, if I know a guy is straight there’s zero chance of me asking him out. What in the world would be the bloody point? “Sorry, but I have no sexual interest in you.”
Plus some of us will hide ourselves in masculine things like killing bears, drinking beer, going to monster truck rallies, reading Men’s Health…see? Last time I went grocery shopping I saw two guys talking in the magazine section. One of them was talking and going through such a mag. Now, my gaydar isn’t perfect, but I’m guessing he wasn’t reading it for the articles. (Now I bet I’ll have made you nervous about how you might look to a closet case if you read those mags. Oops…)
It isn’t restricted to you. There are a lot of people (most of them guys, and most of them insecure and confused and carrying around gross misunderstandings about some things) who feel that way.
I understand the confusion and insecurity when it’s expressed as you have. There are other places where I think it’s more of a thing that will wane with time. Then there are folks in our community who think it’s just the funniest thing in the world to find some impressionable person who isn’t homophobic so much as truly clueless … and basically have a joke at that person’s expense. Things like that don’t help a bit.
I haven’t the slimmest desire to put you in a place that makes you feel uncomfortable. I don’t want to try to convert you (however in the hell I might go about that … I have no idea) or “show you that kissing a guy can be fun” or anything like that just as I wouldn’t want someone to completely disregard my preferences for no good reason.
Lemme add something regarding a previous (in this post) topic. IF I were ever to meet you, and if I didn’t know you were straight, and if I made some sort of advance toward you, that would not mean, at all, that all the world - especially the women - automatically assumed you were gay. Hell, I flirt with straight guys and with other folks who are unavailable, but it’s in jest. Me flirting with a guy doesn’t mean he has some “I’m homosexual” sign on his back telling all the girls not to bother unless they need fashion advice. it simply means you seem nice:)
Hey, you’re new at this. What you’d been told, and what you’d predominantly seen borne out in life, is not being fundamentally challenged. To have difficulty accomodating that into your mind and what you say is not remotely unexpected.
[sub]That GLBTA… acronym would look absolutely hideous on gay paraphernalia…[/sub]
Sex inequality. 6 spent significant time as a physical man. She is, in terms of gender, a woman. She has always (from what I can tell in this thread), in terms of gender, been a woman. Her body (sex - I just typoed sexY:D) is what’s changing, not her mind (gender).
yes, but because the world bases gender on the physicality of the genitalia. She has been treated as a man no? Thus, she would be the PERFECT person to ask about gender inequality. Now she is treated like a woman, even though the whole time she was a woman (yes no?). I never considered that angle… So tell me six, what is it that women REALLY want
Most of the world bases gender on sex, which is generally manifested in primary sex characterics (genitalia) and secondary sex characteristics (boobs, hair, voice, musculature). (The previous list of 1st/2nd sex characteristics should not be considered a complete list, nor am I even sure it is entirely accurate in what little it details.) I am unaware of anything considered tertiary - 3rd - sex characteristics.
Most of the world bases their interaction with people on sex - how a person looks - and not gender - how a person feels. People assume that someone who appears male, as 6 once did, is in turn male in gender. This is similar (in that it is an assumption that is sometimes incorrect) to how people assume that someone who appears male will pursue women for sexual relationships. (Let us ignore, for purposes of this hijack, what people assume when they see a very femme man or a very butch woman). The world has generally treated 6 based not on her gender (female) but her sex (male to a decreasing degree). As such she would be a good person to talk about sex inequality but not, technically, gender inequality.
She is now treated increasingly in accord with her gender instead of her sex:) (Just another way of saying what you said)
I’d offer to help, but I never got that part of the package. I’m also not very effeminate and I love sports. That all, combined with the fact that my wrists are rather strong, means I really don’t fit folks’ pictures of what a gay/bi guy is “supposed” to look/act/be like. Comes in handy.