With the expense of the war in Iraq dwarfing most damage the terrorists might cause, can it not be argued that the terrorists, indeed, have won?
Since the cost of terrorism is never limited to just the cost in cash, I would say no. Additionally since the Iraq was not previously central to any of Al Qaeida’s operations, the statement seems illogical.
I’m curious, what could America do for its own people with 87 billion dollars?
Bail out the states, for one.
If the government is reading this, i am so kididng.
The CIA is great, they are there to protect America.
Give each one of 'em $310 and change? Most of us will blow through that in a day.
Frankly, I think it’s done more good where it went. Week-long booze binges really don’t further our national interests.
You don’t think maybe it could be used on schools, health care, etc?
Well, many people said that if we let the terrorists change the way we thought about things and how we lived our lives, then they would’ve won.
Have we changed the way we live and think in regards to some things? Airport security measures would seem to indicate that we have changed the way we live this portion of our lives. Have they changed the way we think? Didn’t everyone think for just a second that the Northeast U.S. and Southeastern Canada power outage might have been terrorism? Didn’t Congress pass the Patriot Act as a response to 9/11 (and consequently, didn’t Ashcroft wipe his ass with the Fourth Ammendment in response to terrorism? That’s another debate.)
I don’t know that they’ve changed society at very basic levels, but they’ve changed it nonetheless. Have they won? Inconclusive. Did this post answer anything? No.
Have they “won”?
Well, let’s see…their goal was the destruction of the West and its liberal, secular society and the imposition, by force if necessary, a strict sect of Islam especially in Arab countries (and the overthrow of their current gov’ts) and eventually Europe, the expulsion from Israel of the Jews, the expulsion of American troops from Saudi Arabia.
The US has left SA and we were possibly asked to leave, although with Iraq no longer a threat, one could argue we don’t need to be there anymore.
I don’t think “heighted airport security” would be a decent consolation prize for the terrorists. “Hey OSama! No more curbside check-ins…we’ve won…we’ve won!”. Um, I can’t see them saying that.
87 billion isn’t as much as you think. The US spends over a trillion on health care annually. Total US production of goods and services is $10 trillion. So it’s less than 1% of our total output. If we can establish a decent gov’t there and leave, it will have been worth it (IMO).
The children too ? What about the children ? They don’t blow anything like $310 dollars a day. That’d be $113,150 per year, which is a bit larger than the average household’s discretionary income, much less the kids allowance. On the other hand, 87 billion is roughly a year’s wages ($1629.21) for every one of the 53.4 million residents of Iraq and Afghanistan combined.
OTOH, the prescription drug plan, which is ALSO vital to the interests of our great nation, is gonna hit the .400 Billion mark (or more) before it’s all said and done. 87 Billion is just a flash in the pan. :rolleyes:
$87 billion may be a flash in the pan to you, friend, but in Canada that’s considered fairly serious change. No, the terrorists did not win. George Bush won. Again, try Chomskey.
Of course the terrorists have won!!
just look at the word, "terror"ist!! Americans fear just about everything and everyone these days. Some of the stuff they are selling these days (in record numbers too) is insane. Maybe a good idea, but parachute sales were skyrocketing for people who work in highrises.
Evidence #2: Osama bin Laden is still hiking up those rocky cliffs, sitting in his cave, and making his video tapes, promising another terror attack. They are ants. stop a few, a million more.
I don’t see any other flags waving over the US except the Stars and Stripes. It ain’t over until the last match and bullet! What kind of muddling mind would ever buy into this crap! When Osama is sitting in the Oval office saying he was running this country THEN maybe they won but I doubt even that. You see if it ever got that bad WE would become the terrorists and they would be in fear of US!
I for one don’t fear a thing right now and I can’t think of anything related to this which would cause me to think otherwise.
You could say the same about us. Kill a thousand or so Americans and a hundred thousand will show up at your door to kick the ever living s&*t out of you! YOU MAGGOT!
Moderator’s Note: Roger_Mexico, just how much of your post was by you, and how much of it was by Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman? [Post removed from thread. – MEB]
SunTzu2U: Cool it or take it to the Pit.
Except the goal of the Terrorists isn’t to control the US goverment.
That like saying the Chiefs haven’t won, even if they win the superbowl. They have not won the Gold medal in the Olympics, therefore they have not won. And they won’t win till they get that Gold medal.
Considering for a moment that the Terrorist aims were not to sit in the Oval office:rolleyes: It is a mixed victory.
If they merely wanted to push US interests out of the region (much like when the US withdrew from Lebanon after the attack on the Marine barracks), then they have failed utterly, because now the entire region is under a huge microscope and US “interference” has increased considerably with the toppling of two governments and threats to the others.
If they wanted to somehow raise the ire of Arabs and Muslims against the West by making the US become more aggressive, then it appears they have succeeded.
If they wanted to Frighten the average American and make the US economy weaken, they have succeeded for now.
If they really wanted to march down Pennsylvania Ave and rule the people well its obvious that it was a failure.
Well, we’ll have to see how things play out. Not sure they had a single specific goal.
-But the removal of US troops from Saudi Arabia was big for them.
-They may have wished to incite other Muslim uprisings throughout the world - or to attract radical Muslims to their cause.
-They certainly got more publicity in the last 2 years than the decade or so earlier.
-They may have strategically wished the US would respond with a massive military action in the MidEast, which would incite local militants, and provide a handy target in their own backyard.
-It also is a complex matter to described exactly what changes have occurred in the American psyche. Are Americans more belligerent? More intolerant of differences? More self-righteous? More suspicious? Are these changes desirable or not?
-Personally, I deplore what I consider the administration’s attacks on the civil liberties of its citizens. I am embarrassed that my country is jailing two of its citizens denying them basic Constitutional rights. I detest the creation of a new class of “domestic terrorism,” and the permission of searches absent a showing of just cause.
So have they won? I’d say the jury is still out. Two years is too short to tell.
Personally, I find it a little depressing when I read about our paying for infrastructure in Afghanistan and Iraq, when our domestic infrastructure is so in need of rebuilding.
Well, good. Then I’m sure you see no reason for us to wage any more wars against uninvolved third-world countries. Bush and his ilk made their case with fear, whether founded or not.
I think the US has won… as far as terrorizing goes:
Osama scared 270 million americans + Britain.
Bush scared the other 6 Billion. I’m far more scared of Bush than Al Qaeda.