I have seen this thread and I agree with all the posters who agreed with me.
Every time the Mods have given me notice, I deserved it. As a matter of fact, I don’t recall an instance where anybody was warned without justification. Forget the nitpicking details, they have a tough job to do, and people should skip the complaints unless they get warned for something without any rational cause.
I didn’t say anything at all about not wanting to hear it from you. Why the persecution complex? I’m simply stating that I’ve seen this time and time again - and that the pattern nearly always ends in death-by-mod.
I’ve tried my entire life to speak truth to power, and I’ve done it to people holding far more power over me than the Mods on this messageboards, with far higher stakes than my continued membership. I’ve also not done it on occasion, out of intimidation and cowardice, and those occasions are among the things I regret the most. **Twickster **and Tom, in addition to being abnormally thin-skinned, vindictive, and defensive, have made numerous Modding errors IMO and I haven’t been shy about pointing them out. If I get banned over pissing one of them off one time too many, I can live with that. I don’t want to be a member of any community that doesn’t welcome criticism.
And Munch? Sure you said you didn’t want to hear it from me. Your edited comment indicates that you find the same qualities in Tom irritating that I do–I have very little to lose at this point by continuing to point out even minor lapsses in good Modding from him, in the unlikely hope of getting him to modify his heavy-handed, officious style, or of encouraging someone with a little power over him to realize how alienating that style is.
The problem, I think, derives from Cecil’s tone: mods seem to be encouraged, or at least allowed, to adopt a Cecilian snarkiness, while posters, in the name of civility, are often admonished for the same snarky style, often the same snarky phrases, which makes people wonder “Why can’t I say what [Mod] just said?” or thinking that they should be allowed to get in people’s faces in the same way that a Mod just did, or did repeatedly. I’m not talking about Mod actions, which of course, no poster can emulate, but mod language, or mod tone. It’s hard work to keep a civil tongue in your head while admonishing people, and too often mods resort to the easy way out of a sticky situation: invoking authority and behaving in a thoroughly unpleasant and often personal tone, at the expense of civility and consistency.
Which is to be commended. But you should realize that right now, your speaking truth to power consists of criticizing tomndebb because he said a hijack was, and I quote, “dumb,” and because he then directed you to take your comments about his wording to this forum. In this case I think your criticism in this case is incorrect, and apart from that, I think describing it this way overdramatizes the issue. It’s a good idea for mods to avoid weighing in on a topic when they are trying to shut it down. I don’t think tomndebb’s comments in that thread represent a real violation of that principle.
It wasn’t the hijack that he said was “truly” dumb so much as ONE side of the hijacked discussion (mine) that I take issue with, Marley. There are at least 40 other Dopers (to judge from my poll, as of yesterday) who think there is some merit in the question, so simply because Tom is in the majority shouldn’t privilege him to call us “truly dumb” as he closes off the hijack. That was inappropriate in his role as moderator, to take sides on an issue as he was performing his modly duties–if he wanted so badly to make his personal opinions known, he could have simply participated as a poster in the poll I started to avoid the hijack. Instead he chose to combine his posting and modding duties in a way I find inappropriate. I have no problem with him labelling the side issue a hijack and closing it off from the main discussion–in fact, I endorse his action and anticipated it in creating the poll. It could have been a brilliant point, or more precisely Tom could have agreed with me entirely, and still have been correct in asking people not to hijack the discussion any further–but if he had done so, and labelled the hijack “truly brilliant” as he asked people to discuss it elsewhere, his personal opinions still would have been inappropriate (though I admit I probably wouldn’t have troubled to object to them, though someone else might have, and quite rightly.)
The fact that people find the discussion interesting isn’t relevant. There’s no accounting for taste, right? 
The issue is that the topic was a hijack, and it was a hijack in which people were insulting each other despite repeated instructions from me and from tomndebb. So he said it was dumb. Does this really strike you as a mod improperly putting his thumb on the scales? He did not shut down one side of the discussion, he shut down the entire discussion and commented on its absurdity. You now have a thread about it in IMHO, which is where it belongs as a separate topic.
I had the thread at the time Tom made his remark.
I don’t know why this is so hard a point for you to get, ** Marley**: he was entirely appropriate in shutting down the hijack. He was not appropriate in opining in a highly judgmental way on WHICH SIDE OF THE HIJACKED DISCUSSION he personally favored. His personal opinion had nothing (or, more properly, should have had nothing) to do with closing off a hijack. As I said before, if he had opined in the opposite direction, it still would have been inappropriate. Do you really think it’s a good thing if mods, while performing their modly duties of closing or moving threads, also take that opportunity to opine on the very discussion they’re closing or moving? Don’t you agree it would be more seemly if they performed their official duties separately from chiming in (with the final word in that thread) on the subject they’re closing or moving? Or do you consider that just another perk of the job?
You can’t honestly believe that “truly dumb” is highly judgmental, can you? If you do, I’d really suggest that this isn’t the board for you. Surely there’s a Miss Manners discussion board out there with your name on it (actually, it’ll have Miss Manners’ name on it, but you know what I mean). You might want to take BigT with you before he gets the vapors.
I get it. It’s not a complex issue. I think your complaint is without merit because all he did was say the side discussion was “dumb.” And I am not sure I agree with your point that he weighed in improperly; someone could agree with your side of the discussion and still think it’s a dumb subject.
I guess that’s where we disagree, Marley. I think it’s clear that he was not dismissing the entire subject as “truly dumb,” but only one side of it, in that the question being asked was whether such a thing could have happened. If you think there is no way on earth McCain lusted after Palin, then the discussion is dumb–if you think there is a scintilla of a chance that such a thing could explain in part McCain’s decision, then even if you think that isn;t what happened, it’s a valid discussion, or at least not a truly dumb one.
Please don’t go all semantic on me, a la Tom, and plead that technically there is no rock-hard evidence for deducing Tom’s personal position on the contents of the hijack from his posts in that thread. technically, perhaps not, but anyone who reads that thread, and is remotely honest, knows from that thread exactly how Tom would have voted in my poll.
“Truly dumb” is a perfect example of “highly judgmental”: it takes a position that assumes superiority. If you don’t believe me, try calling someone “truly dumb” in Great Debates and, when Tom objects, try telling him this isnt the board for him.
This is the main problem I have with these types of complaints, saying “the moderators are mean to me, but we’re not allowed to say the same things back.” Look at your posts above: Tom said a hijack was “truly dumb”, so you are here complaining about it because you think it was personally addressed to you, but you are criticizing him more harshly, so you can’t pretend that you aren’t able to do the same.
Yeah, we can’t have anyone taking positions or holding opinions that assume superiority. That’d be brand new around here.
So go ahead. Try it.
Apparently. Now, why does this matter? Is “dumb” that significant?
Nope. A minor complaint, expressed as a suggestion for better public relations with your clientele, blown up by Tom by his need to chastise me in the thread, and ordering me to open up an ATMB for any further permissible syllables from me on the subject, exacerbated by your (and others’) defense of a pretty indefensible point. Let it go–I’ve said my say.
That’s what really rankles you isn’t it? That you didn’t get the last word?
I can guess where this thread is going.
Are you serious? The final two quotes you cite aren’t remotely critical of any mod personally, and if you’d care to discuss how **Tom **and **Twickster **aren’t notorious for their thin skin, vindictiveness and defensiveness, please open up your own ATMB thread (so I don’t get blamed for snarking on the Mods) and see if you get some argument that these are long-standing complaints.
Not me so much, as any Mod taking the final word as he moves the thread. I don;t mind in the least if any other poster (or even Tom, posting as a poster) got the final word in.