Ok, fine. But it still wasn’t due to some sort of desire on Twickster to passively pit Lissener. You may disagree with the decision, but there’s no reason to not take what she said about it at other than face value. Except for Lissener who seems bent on playing the victim card.
Given the backlash, I doubt we’ll ever see it happen again anyway.
I’m not responding to an individual word in your last post. Most of your argument has been that twickster attacked you by moving the thread. For example: “Twickster pitted me by proxy.”
I should add that I do realize that some threads do spin out of control and go beyond a Mod’s ability to salvage. I also don’t know and do not assume that twickster was pitting by proxy.
However, in this case, it appears moving the thread was premature at best insofar as twickster made no attempt to moderate before dumping the thread in the Pit. I think a good faith effort at moderation should be made first.
I also question whether any non-Pit thread, begun in good faith as a non-Pit topic, should be moved to the Pit if the discussion breaks down that far. It seems locking it is the better way to go out of respect for the OP’s intent of having a civil discussion by starting a non-Pit topic. Let someone else start the Pit thread.
Must I really rewrite all of my posts before you’ll acknowledge any single point beyond the personal, or speculations as to twickster’s motivations? Is that honestly all you read in everything I and others have written in this thread?
Which point hasn’t been addressed? You said twickster pitted you by proxy (not true), you said she abused her power (not true), you suggested she broke a rule (not true).
Those aside: yes, I understand you’re upset about the move. I get that you feel that when she put the thread in the Pit, it was an invitation for other posters to call you names, because you feel it guided the thread in a direction you didn’t want it to go in. It’s easy to understand why you are displeased on that score. The point I’ve tried to make, and I think twickster has said the same thing, is that both of those things were going to happen inevitably because of what you posted. They were not caused by the moving of the thread.
The problem is the assumption of inevitability, though.
I don’t think making a judgment based on experience is a problem. I understand people are sometimes going to disagree with the conclusions, and I realize there isn’t a way to run a side by side comparison of how lissener’s thread might have played out in MPSIMS compared to how it went in the Pit. But in the end I don’t think the difference was that great: you would have seen a different writing style (and probably some warnings) but just as much criticism of lissener.
I still don’t don’t understand the concept of preemptively moving a thread because you think it will become a Pit thread. It seems to me that policy should be to move threads once they already fit the forum. And, honestly, I’ve never seen otherwise. Every thread I’ve seen moved to the Pit already had the characteristics of a Pit thread before it was moved.
Can you provide me with other threads that twickster has moderated in this way?
Please note that I am trying not to impugn anyone’s character here. I can believe twickster’s version of the events (though I wonder if her decision on whether to close or pit was subconsciously influenced by disliking the topic). I think the decision to move to the Pit was incorrect, and that such shouldn’t happen in the future.
To me, it seems that twickster has a habit of pulling the trigger too fast (cf. the warnings that could have been mod notes first), and that maybe she needs to slow down a bit.
Oh, and lissner: never assume malice where ignorance (of how the move would be interpreted) will do.
I will definitely second this. I move threads out of IMHO and into either Great Debates or The BBQ Pit all the time, based on nothing but experience. There are hot-button topics out there that incite others, and no amount of moderator suggestions and/or warnings will prevent the inevitable from happening.
Coming from the guy who de facto pitted someone above for not stopping at stop signs. (You even put the pit post in your moderating) I don’t think your opinion is going to count for much.
I will give your criticism of my moderating all the attention it deserves.
Yes, while twickster’s motives are unclear, Czarcasm’s calling Bearflag an asshole while moving the thread leaves no doubt that it was a “pitting by proxy”. twickster’s position is definitely not aided by his support.
The assumption seems valid to me. The thread, IIRC, went into the dumper pretty much right away.
Because that involves waiting for the inevitable insults and trainwreck, and giving out warnings. Why not avoid that if we can?
This one, maybe. You could argue this was a similar move in that it’s another topic that was going to draw vehement responses.
Because the so-called “inevitable” trainwreck is based upon speculation and nothing more than an assumption that civil discourse cannot be had.
Instead of moving a non-Pit topic to the Pit when it appears the tone of a thread is degenerating, why not just issue a general warning and instruct the people making insults or otherwise derailing the thread to take it to the Pit? That way, people who CAN remain civil may continue the discussion civilly and those who CANNOT remain civil have a place to go. A preemptive Pit move deprives those who CAN remain civil of a civil discussion.
Exactly. This would have been a much better way to handle the situation.
What “civil discourse” is going to happen in a thread where someone posts what Lissener posted?
It was clear at the outset where the thread was headed. So instead of having to babysit the thread, the mods put it where it didn’t have to be policed.
Keep in mind we’re not talking about hypothetical threads, we’re talking about that specific thread.
Are you saying some subjects are so terrible that they compel people to post angry vitriol and must be moved to the pit preemptively?
It still has to be policed. If you didn’t notice, there’s a whole bunch of rules in the Pit nowadays about what words you can use, how insulting towards others you can be and the old no threats of violence.
But regardless, there are plenty of threads in MPSIMS where people just make admissions and/or mention their personal examples without much real “discourse” going on. This could have been one of them with a simple warning from twickster to “take your rage to the Pit”. Why must the MPSIMS mods save morons from themselves because they can’t follow the rules and start a Pit thread on their own? It’s really not tough. You click a button, type “[link] I think you’re scum”, hit another button.
No. I’m talking about that particular thread, which was a trainwreck from the start.
Please don’t try to generalize the intent of my comment.