You said “What “civil discourse” is going to happen in a thread where someone posts what Lissener posted?” So then only lissener’s OP is one from which no civil discourse could occur? Other than that, civil discourse can come from anything?
What made that thread so objectionable that it had to be carted off? Because a cat was harmed in the making of the thread? If that inspires so much hate, start a Pit thread. The board doesn’t have a thread limit; we don’t need to post efficiently.
The thread was a trainwreck from the start. I hardly see any chance of that thread all of a sudden becoming all smiles and unicorns. IMNSHO, there was very little chance of any sort of civil discourse in that particular thread.
I’m not engaging in anything that purports to expand the scope of my comments to generalized situations.
First, I never said it -had- to. I just don’t object to it being done -in this case-. If you want to know what was so objectionable, I suggest you go look at the pit thread that I started on the subject.
What I find objectionable in this thread is the base assumption that it was an intentional pitting by proxy. Then again, if people aren’t giving the mods shit over something it wouldn’t be the dope, would it?
The topic could have stayed on the original intended point instead of shifting to a flame fest.
Instead of making rules, asking people to follow them, and enforcing them against violators, it seems too easy and cheap to allow a mob of rule violators to form and derail a thread, causing it to be moved to the Pit, just so the mob’s posts come into conformity with the rules.
Perhaps lissener (or any OP with a potentially emotionally charged topic) should have started two threads simultaneously: one non-Pit thread and one Pit thread with essentially the same OP in both threads.
You’ve said that two or three times now, but it’s been admitted by the mods themselves that it was a pre-emptive move based on what they thought posters would do, not upon what had already happened in the thread. Your definition of trainwreck requires some serious modification, and is irrelevant anyway.
Smiles and unicorns aren’t required. I imagine there are a lot of posters who can’t be bothered to control their outrage and post it in the proper forum, but there’s no reason to coddle those people.
You are making excuses for “threadshitters” – it was obvious from the thread title what the thread was intended to be. Further, most of the early repliers are those who tend to be outraged more often than most. The problem, as I see it, is that a lot of these pre-emptive moves basically encourage the posters who can’t control themselves enough to let something go, or to post a pit thread that the object of the pitting might not see or participate in.
If I posted a thread in GQ about something like “What’s the best way to butcher a stray cat for cooking”, I would expect that the posters would manage to keep their responses GQ, and take any outrage to the pit. Apparently MPSIMS posters cannot be held to the same standard. There shouldn’t be magic username/post combos that get moved because people can’t control themselves.
QFT
My definition doesn’t need any modification. You may not like it, but I really couldn’t give a shit about that. And it is entirely relevant to the discussion. The thread was a trainwreck. It was destined to be a trainwreck based on the content of the OP.
If you disagree, shrug. I don’t care.
Pre-emptive doesn’t mean an intent to skirt the rules regarding mods pitting people. I think it’s total bullshit for people to make accusations as to Twickster’s motives here.
As I said before, it wouldn’t be the dope if someone wasn’t crying about moderator actions. Sandy vaginas and all.
I’m not making excuses for anyone. I didn’t say it was ok for people to go where they did, but the fact remains that they did.
And there aren’t “all these” preemptive moves, either. Don’t inflate it. Shit happens sometimes. This is one of those times.
You may “expect” posters to do that, but as a point of fact, posters -didn’t- do that in that particular thread.
Now while I freely admit that a different approach would probably have been best, I really don’t have an issue with this particular thread being moved to the pit.
In the end, it doesn’t matter. I pitted Lissener for that thread, so in the end it turned out exactly as it needed to.
You have yet to make a coherent point other than that you don’t think it was an intentional pitting by the mod to skirt the rules, which, by the way, was not my point, nor do I think it is true.
We only have two options; either posters will violate the rules and get warned, or the mods will move every post with the potential to be highly contentious to the pit, just because posters can’t be expected to control themselves. Personally, I think it would be great if some of the posters on the “smartest message board on the internet” who cannot or will not understand the difference between forums got warnings.
My point is that many posters, such as yourself, that can’t help but post everything they think, without regard to the rules, should be punished, or at the very least should not get the opportunity to mess up other people’s threads, however much they might not like that thread, because they can’t follow the rules.
I’ve made coherent points. You just don’t agree. That’s fine. Because as I said before, I don’t give a shit what you think. I’m not sure how much clearer I can be.
Pot meet kettle.
Oh and I haven’t ever broken and rules here. Or at least none that I’m aware of. So you can abandon that convenient lie right now.
We may need to take this to the pit. I’ve about had enough of you.
Exactly. It was a perfectly valid topic for a non-pit thread.
Isn’t it nice to have the choice?
FTR, I was agreeing with ivn1188’s larger point. I have no idea if tacoloco posts in that manner.
You’re not making excuses, you’re just saying it’s proper for the mods to specifically accommodate them by moving these threads so the poor babies don’t get warned for their out of control e-rage. That’s silly, and coming from a guy saying mod complaints spring from “sandy vaginas”, kind of contradictory.
When you shoot at CarnalK, you’d better shoot straight.
Disambiguation Disclaimer: the above is a compliment, not an insult.
What I said is that IN THIS CASE, I had no problem with it. I further clarified that this case probably could have been handled differently. If people want to hand me my ass, that’s fine, but at least hand it to me based on things I actually wrote instead of my alleged intent.
Well, your sandy vaginas comment was clearly a general statement, but fine “in this case” you want to accomodate people who can’t handle opening a Pit thread. I still think it’s silly.
Then what exactly is your point? That’s the problem here; you are not effectively communicating your ideas to us. I’m not saying this to be mean. I really just have no idea what you are trying to get across.
Are you saying that we shouldn’t discuss mod decisions? Fine, that’s your opinion, thank you.
Are you saying that we should stop attributing bad motives to twickster? Again, fine, that’s your opinion, thank you. Neither I or anyone else you’ve been arguing with in the last page said nor implied it anyway, but the mods probably don’t need you to defend their actions, and repeating your point is unnecessary, especially as we have a much better source on moderator motive.
Or, are you arguing that people had already committed grievous and gross violations of the rules before the thread was moved? If so, you are incorrect. There were no rules violations, even according to the mods. The thread was moved because it would be too difficult to keep on track and too difficult to hand out warnings to those who can’t conduct themselves appropriately. If you disagree, you are welcome to link to the posts in question.
My sandy vagina aside, I have made an effort to understand your point, and I’ve refrained from starting a pit thread about you, nor have I resorted to profanity or other rudeness. At this point, though, I suspect you are just bringing up personal enmity or are trying to express your disgust with those of us who complain too much. Otherwise, I cannot figure out how you can have a coherent stance – either we coddle the rage posters because we can’t expect them to act like adults, or we expect them to act like adults. There isn’t really an in between.
I think mods should be very cautious about such preemptive moves to the Pit. Moving a thread to the Pit is almost certainly going to change the whole nature of that thread and the OP is going to end up with very different responses than he would have received if the thread had remained in MPSIMS or wherever. The OP may well have not started it in the Pit because he wanted measured and thoughtful replies rather than invective. By moving it the mod subverts that purpose.
Now, all well and good if a thread is getting out of hand; then the OP’s intention has to take second place to board decorum. But a mod ‘feeling’ that a thread ‘may’ go off the rails should not be enough to interfere with the posting intent of a member who had they wanted a Pit thread would have started one there.
Thanks, aldiboronti, for distilling my central point down much more clearly (and far less personally) than I was able to. I hope Marley and twix are still around to respond to it.
The more I think about it, the more troubled I am at the notion that an OP can start a non-Pit thread, but an angry mob can hijack the thread by breaking the established rules of the SDMB.
Rather than enforce the rules against the angry mob, the mods essentially cave into the angry mob by moving the thread to the Pit, denying the OP and the rest of the SDMB community an opportunity to have a courteous and meaningful discussion on a particular topic.
In fact, the power of the angry mob is so great that our mods cater to the potential and hypothetical angry mob by preemptively moving a thread to the Pit when the mod, in his or her judgment, believes an angry mob may form.
I thought mob rule was antithetical to the fundamental underpinnings of the SDMB … ya know, fighting ignorance and all that.
Same sex marriage certainly is a heated topic, yet, thankfully, SDMB manages to get through it without dumping every SSM thread into the Pit. It appears failure to consistently use turn signals and tossing a pesky cat out are topics somehow more heated and out of control than same sex marriage.