If the stagehands onsite can hear the actual “performance” but the TV broadcast audience hears a pre-recorded track, is it considered “live”? Is it fake? Is it real? Is it mime?
(Also, I don’t think the term “lip-sync” was common vocabulary among mainstream audiences back in 1984.)
put up or shut up. You as a moderator should know better than to be-little someone in a debate without backing it up with anything.
If you have a point to make then make it. They mimed a pre-recorded piece. The fact they attempted to play in sync with the recording doesn’t change the fact that what we heard is not what they played.
This statement might be true in the pennies but it is false in the pounds. Yes, they were playing something, but it was something that no one actually heard. The manner in which the situation was manipulated means that they were effectively miming to a recorded track. Their intent was to deceive.
Nope. Taken everything you say as true, the appropriate solution is not to have live musicians as part of the program. There are multitudes of classes of professions and artists who were not part of the inaugural program. There is nothing essential about live musicians.
I have put up–twice. I have noted that you are applying your own idiosyncratic definition to the word “mime” that is belied by the very definition that you claimed to cite in order to assert that the actions of the muscians was miming:
To “act out” is not the same as to perform and the musicians were performing real music on real instruments. I have no interest in the overall discussion, here. I am quite willing to be entertained by your insistence that playing in time with a pre-recorded set that was broadcast to the Mall was a BAD THING. However, when your persist in using the word “mime” in order to give your plaint more emotional impact, I note that you have misused that word and when you abuse the language, I take an interest in that.
I don’t think they were actually playing along with the recording due to the lack of sheet music. They could have memorized the entire piece but I’m willing to bet in the recording session they used sheet music.
I think the whole premise of the thread belongs in “in my opinion” because it’s really an opinion on how people perceive a fake performance. “miming” as defined and as I’ve used it is the act of mimicking a performance. This is clearly what they did. They weren’t playing “air violin” but they were playing to a recorded piece which is what everybody heard. If you don’t like the word “mime” to describe the mimicking of a performance I will entertain any word that fairly represents what they did. But for discussion purposes, we are talking about someone who plays a piece of music against a recording that the crowd is to interpret as being a live performance.
You may think it picky but it’s something I’ve always hated. I’ve invested a great deal of time searching out groups who can play well live and I hold that ability in high esteem. I’m disappointed that someone of Yo Yo Ma’s caliber would “mime” “lip sync” “karaoke” or otherwise present something as a live performance. I’ve pointed out that it’s not rocket science to heat a stage nor would it be otherwise diminished if they broadcast it live from the rotunda a few feet behind them. You would have to be well forward of the circular pool in front of the Capital to even see them. the vast majority of people where behind the pool. and heard/watched it from relay points. For all practical purposes it was a televised event. Anybody within earshot of them would have heard ever variation between the recording and their “it’s too cold to play it right” version. This would have sounded like crap. On top of that, it meant that Obama had to turn his back to view the performance (versus looking at a screen with everybody else). This looked awkward when he shifted back and forth.
I don’t like the tone of this thread because it comes off as a debate over the talent of the musicians. It’s an opinion piece about live performance versus a pre-recorded (fill in your favorite definition) representation of a live performance.
Unless Ma was lying in the interview, they were not producing any music when they were up on stage. He specifically mentioned that the instruments were rendered incapable of playing (e.g. soap on the bows).
While I have no problem believing that he’s willing to participate in the deception of performing to a recording, I don’t think he lied or was joking in the interview. It has been widely reported that those nearby could hear it, but I highly doubt that.
To those who are defending their actions - why is it so important that the musicians appear to be playing their instruments? Would it not have been respectful for them to simply sit there and listen along with everyone else?
Do you really think that would have been halfway near as entertaining? Without a visual element to focus on, half the crowd or more would have been bored out of their skulls, including the fine folks up on the stage.
Sorry, no, that’s just not what the word means. You don’t get to invent your own definitions. Or, I suppose, you can if you want to, but you shouldn’t expect everyone else to go along with it.
Nonsense. Their intent was to put on a good show. Unless you can demonstrate that at some point they claimed that they’d be playing live at the inauguration, there was no intent to deceive. The fact that you misapprehended what was happening does not make it a deception.
You’re the one twisting the ordinary meaning of words here. “We’ll be playing at the inauguration” means “We’ll be playing live,” not “We’ll be playing (kinda), but you’ll be listening to a record.”
Post 38 says exactly what it says. Where did I claim otherwise?
And I’ll ask again, WRT Milli Vanilli, did you mean “a few people,”, or “everyone”? You have said both.
I attributed this quote to you. Is it accurate?
“The vast majority of those who have watched any music outdoors or on television, in an event that isn’t designed specifically to be a paid concert of that performer’s music, know that dubbed music is a very real possibility.”
And while we’re at it, do you have anything to support your various assertions, other than the fact that you have made them? Any evidence for “the vast majority,” “the entire population,” etc.?
I’m not sure why posters are ignoring what panamajack said. According to Ma they were not playing. They were mimicing the physical actions of playing but no sound was being made. The bows were soaped, and the piano was modified in some way to decouple the keys from the hammers (I’m not sure what they did to the clarinet). If you are acting like you’re playing an instrument, but not actually making any noise, you are miming. The interview is here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99816993.
The sound that nearby people claim to have heard was not from them, but from the recording coming out through the monitors.
I posted the meaning of the word and it coudn’t be clearer. What was heard had nothing to do with what they did on stage. They mimed their own work. whatever squeaked out of their waxed instruments was not what the public heard. You can try to define what they did out of existence but a recording was played in place of what they were doing on stage and that’s what we’re discussing.
Their intent was to skate through a live performance by miming their own work. That’s what happened. It’s not conjecture. It’s not speculation. Applying your logic they could do the same thing during a regular show and it would be fine as long as they didn’t claim it was a live performance.
If you can’t deal with the English language then invent your own word for someone who mimics their own music (which includes muting their instruments) but plays a recording of it during a performance. Type that word next to:**To act out with gestures and body movement **and we’ll call it a day. When you finish that you can rejoin the discussion which is about someone who plays a recording during a live performance.
Well, it’s even worse. They weren’t even playing badly.
That’s why you don’t normally have snowman-biulding contests in Daytona beanh in July. “Well, we’re going to show you a video of how we did it in Alaska last January cuz it’s too damn hot, and here’s a wood model of what we did.”
Sorry, panamajack you were right on the money…you win.
Given Mr. Ma’s comment in his NPR interview the the bows were soaped and the piano hammers disengaged, I would now agree that their actions were miming. When that point had not been clearly made and there was the real chance that they had actually been playing the instruments, but not plugged into the sound system, the word “mime” would have been, (and appeared), incorrect.
Let’s look at the difference in these two statements again:
Just admit that you got confused, attributed a quote to me that was the opposite of what I said, and are now trying to confuse anyone who may be following along by reposting nonsense over and over again. To top it off, you’re now splitting hairs about verbage in an attempt to distract everyone.