You are not French! Pronounce the "h"! (lame rant)

For the last time, it’s “a historical event”. Not “an istorical event”. You are not speaking French. Perhaps you feel that you are erudite or learned or something by leaving off the first letter. To me you just sound silly. The “h” is there for a reason. Use it and stop annoying me!

So, ah, who’s the guilty party?

Just you wait, 'enry 'iggens.

I thought you were supposed to use “an” before “historical” even in English when pronouncing the h.

Some - people’s - lects - do - not - have - the - fucking - overt - “h” - at - the - beginning - of - “historical”.

Jesus Christ. Do you get this pissy when someone pronounces it “leftenant”?

matt, hi’m sorry, hi don’t hunderstand what you say. Can you hexplain, it would be elpfull. Thank you.

The H is there for the purpose of orthographic continuity.

Where I come from, several words beginning H do not get aspirated if the accent falls on the second syllable. I do not get silly mad at people who say “a historical,” but I am not going out of my way to change my speech just because you grew up with different rules. “An 'istorical” works fine. I do not say “an 'istory lesson” because the accent in history falls on the first syllable and is aspirated.

(If you’d like, however, I’ll see whether I have a spare crutch for you to use with your rant.)

[Hawkeye Pierce}
“This is Major Charles Emerson Winchester. I require an harmonica!”
[/Hawkeye Pierce}

Until I was well into adulthood, I never heard anybody say “an 'istorical.” Nor did they say “Cro Man-yon” or “Neandertal” - that was Cro-MaGnon and NeanderTHal. I was just wondering the other day why American English speakers have switched over to pronouncing some words more… correctly, I suppose, more like the languages from which these words come (if THAT made any damn sense.)

As for me, I’ve started pronouncing the “H” in “herbs” and “herbal” just because it makes my 'usband cringe :slight_smile:

Where you from, boy? Y’all talk funny, if you ask me.

Is it really proper to say “an historical…” if you pronounce the H?

According to Bryan Garner, in A Dictionary of Modern American Usage, no.

This is, however, from an American usage dictionary. In England, and in some parts of the Commonwealth, an is considered acceptable. According to Fowler’s Modern English Usage (third edition), edited by R.W. Burchfield:

Personally, i have no problem with someone using an historian in formal writing, although i think this construction tends to sound a little odd when spoken. I tend to agree with Garner, at least regarding the spoken form, when he says:

Note to all: Yes, this is a lame and stupid rant. It’s just on the list of things that piss me off for no discernable reason. I am fully aware that the the strength of the English language is in its diversity and many varying dialects. Feel free to say stuff however you like. However, this does not lessen my annoyance unless you drop all of your h’s.

matt: I thought “leftenent” was a different rank (or from a different hierarchy) than “lieutenant”. Are they really the same, and if so when did the spelling cross over?

LifeOnWry, I’ve never heard anyone say “Cro Man-yon” or “Neandertal”.

There is no discrepancy in spelling, they both refer to the same rank, it is (like your crying about istorical) a pronunciation issue.

I’m with Tom on this one. Where I learned the lingo, the “h” rules are the same as he’s recounted.

The whole OP reminds me of a bit from Barney Miller:

[ul]Carter Administration Flunky: We don’t speak with accents. Y’all speak with accents.[/ul]

j_kat, I’ve read books where an officer was referred to as “Leftenant Lastname”. This was never interchanged with “Lieutenant”, so I figured it was a rank in a different miiltary hierarchy. (Though now that I think of it, I’m not sure whether or not I read this in more than one book. I read a lot of SF, so it may be a rank some author made up for their particular book(s).)

Start watching the History Channel, Discovery, and assorted episodes of National Geographic. It’s been years since I heard any narrator say “Cro-MaGnon” or “NeanderTHal.” The WryGuy watches almost nothing but. (Well, Wings and Mail Call, of course.)

The American insistence on saying “erb” and “erbal” still grates like fingernails on a chalkboard for me, three years after moving to the US. I realize that this is standard American usage, but it doesn’t make it any easier to get used to.

[Eddie Izzard]

There’s a fuckin’ “h” in it!!!

[/Eddie Izzard] :slight_smile:

Very quick Google turned up this: Neanderthal or Neandertal?

On the OP, it may well be regional / dialectal… I grew up in New Zealand with the usage “an Historical text”… and I would always say “an Heraldic dictionary”… OK, so that doesn’t come up in conversation all that much, but being a herald in the SCA rather more than you might think. :slight_smile:

Oh, and just to add… the “H” isn’t silent (at least in the accent with which I am familiar), it may be soft and weak… and probably gets beaten up in the playground by labial fricatives… but it is not completely missing. :slight_smile:

It’s that damn Andy Capp. He thinks he’s all that with his black beer and his hat pulled over his eyes.