You Beat your Dogs 2 Months Ago Because You’re Frustrated with Them, so You Adopt Another Dog

The BBQ Pit
21

Some professional trainers I’ve seen training working dogs are plenty physical with misbehaving service dogs, yanking them into place, scolding and yelling at them, and generally take_no_shit rough with them. They didn’t “beat” them, but often used harsh physical correction including (in some cases) shock collars for dogs that just couldn’t stop undesirable behaviors.

It generally seemed to get results as the misbehavior stopped, but I didn’t stay long enough to see if the correction was permanent.

Is harsh physical correction always an ineffective way to train a working animal?

22

I had a immature friend many years ago. He was a cook living in a small one bedroom apartment, he and his live in girlfriend worked in the same place, a lot of hours and weekends.

Idiot decides to get a dog. I and our other friend (who knows about dogs) strongly advised against it, because of the lack of space and his working hours. He doesn’t listen to us and gets a big shaggy dog (this was 20 yeas ago, so my memory is a bit shady on breed.). He adopted this animal from the pound.

My friend of course realized quickly that he could not care for said animal and was hitting it when he came home from a long night at work to see pee stains on the carpet. Finally he grew a personal resentment against this poor beast and decided to dump it. I told him to give the dog back to the pound (it was a nice dog, and could work well in a rural or in a home with a yard.). Idiot told me that he could not do that because the pound would not let him adopt in the future.

We dumped the dog in a neighborhood. He rationalized it by saying that he lft the dog in a nice neighborhood and that someone there might take him in for free. Probably a fair chance that is what happened to the animal, but in hindsight, I would have taken the dog home and then gave it to the pound or put out an ad for friendly dog to good home. But I was a kid living at home and my parents would of disapproved.

23

She doesn’t have a working animal, she has a pet.

And using a shock collar on a dog when you’re training it in service is not the same as beating on it when you had a bad day at work and you want to take your frustrations out on something smaller than you.

24

True, but they are both dogs, the mind and psychology of a working dog is assumedly (physiologically) the same as that of regular pet dog. If a negative behavior is correlated with physical punishment of some kind why would that be effective for service dogs, but ineffective on pet dogs?

25

But it was not a corrective action, it was inconsistant and illogical. There is a difference between using a water bottle whenever the cat does something you don’t want it to do, and running after the cat with a water bottle because you’re feeling nasty.

26

Neither of which has any bloody effect upon a cat whatsoever. :smiley:

27

curlcoat it was more than one time. Other than the “smacking” she says that when the dog peed in the house, that was one of the times(plural) she beat the holy hell out of her.

This isn’t an issue of physical correction.

28

So when your children were little and one of them reached for a hot stove and you tapped their hand to shoo them away that’s just the same as if you beat them with your belt, right? I mean, it’s all physical punishment.

Dude - go get a shock collar and zing yourself. I promise you’ll be surprised at what a non-event it is. If you do happen to have a pacemaker of some type that you’ve just never mentioned, skip this, K?

29

Rats, I’d forgotten about that original thread…

Does PapSett know this thread is here?

30

I don’t see this thread as much about dumping shit on PapSett, but more a lot of concern and care about another poster and about her dogs.

I, too, got a sinking feeling when I read she adopted another dog, having read the previous threads about stress and loneliness.

I hope she reads this one, and sees it for what it can be–an expression of concern, and take some steps to be more involved with the non-animal world.

31

No, but that implies that there is a structured plan for training. There is a positive stimulus, a negative stuimulus, a goal in mind, and a reward for acheiving that goal. Most importantly, the timing of the negative stimulus must be precisely directed at the negative behavior. You must be consistent in what you punish and reward. And you must never, ever be angry when applying physical discipline.

Dog lunges → snap on a choke collar = training
Dog lunges → 10 minutes later you snap the choke cause you felt mad for a minute thinking about how the dog lunged before = not training.

The circumstances in which the dogs were struck were not “training” by any definition. Unlike you, PapSett completely understands that.

32

…

33

Yeah, this thread should have been linked in the Dixie thread. Apparently Jeanie forgot.

34

I did forget and thought the mention of the pitting would be enough since I am back to the phone and my ability to link sucks.

I’ll fix it, but let’s just say I get the impression that Papsett is aware and deliberately ignoring it.

35

You seem to be dragging in a Santa sack of snark for my question which is somewhat tangential to the OP’s beating out of frustration scenario. My question is - "Is punishing a dog physically an* effective* way to train it re correcting or reinforcing behavior? Professionals don’t seem to hesitate in being very physical in training service dogs. Why would these harsh (but non-beating) methods be ineffective or inappropriate for pet dogs with significant misbehavior issues?

That’s the question.

36

Like Alice, you seem to have reading comprehension problems. I’m not equating randomly beating a dog with training it. I’m asking if being physical with a pet dog the same way training professionals are physical with service animals, with a training goal in mind would be effective or ineffective way of training. That’s the extent of the question.

37

I was not going to respond to this but I will add one reply. Most of you all don’t deserve that much. Yeah, I saw this last night when I got off work at Midnight, but I was too fucking tired to reply.

The thread that caused everyone to lable me an abusive dog hoarder was written at a very low point in my life. When I said I “beat the holy hell” out of Kharma, it WAS an exaggeration, a HUGE one. Exactly what I did was get her by the collar, give her a couple smacks on the ass and march her outside. She has not done it again. I do not, nor have I ever BEAT my dogs. My dogs are cared for better than most children. I buy their food and medical supplies before my own. They go to the vet for ANYTHING that seems the slightest bit ‘off’ with them. They are loved beyond belief and they return that love 150%

Is 5 dogs too many? Probably. But they are literally all I have in this world. You cannot understand that unless you have been in my shoes. I hope that each and every one of you that is attacking me has one day in your life that you feel the way I do, every single stinking fucking day of my life, knowing that the only living creatures that care if I live or die are my pets.

When I trained for the obedience club, I did not use ‘abusive’ methods. I do 99% of my training with a simple slip chain, on a loose lead. I have used a prong collar PROPERLY on a dog that would not respect the chain. I have used an electric collar in field work for a dog that insisted on chasing the birds after they were flushed…it was either that or lose him running or on a road. ANd ONLY after I tested the shock collar on my own arm.

My dogs are my family. As long as they are being cared for & loved, I am not over the legal limit and I am not asking for donations to feed them, it’s nobody’s fucking business how many dogs I have. I have fostered dogs in the past. I drive a transport for dogs going to their new home when possible with my work schedule. What can all of you say you do to help out? What can you say you have accomplished in the dog sport? I have multiple obedience titles on many dogs, most on one of the harder breeds to train. One of those dogs was ranked second in the nation. My male Gordon his better than half way to his championship, and half way to his hunting title. My female has her hunting title, and a friend that hunts says they are the 2 best dogs he has ever shot over. I am damned proud of their accomplishments.

They do not need your pity. You do not have to fear for them. They are all sleeping around my feet at this moment, happy, content and LOVED.

Just keep one thing in mind. It’s a damned good thing that I am in a much better state of mind than I was, because the kind of attack I just suffered is exactly the kind of thing that has pushed suicidal people over the edge, and yes, I have been suicidal. But now I am able to just say fuck y’all. You don’t know me, you don’t know my dogs, and you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.

This is just one reason I like dogs a hell of a lot more than I do most of the human race.

38

She’s not being physical in that same way because trainers don’t beat the dogs they deal with. And even if it was the same level of force, if the dog doesn’t know why you’re beating it, then you’re just being cruel.

39

she told u she was hardcore

40

This is not being attacked. Being in a scary emotional place and expecting only kudos for adopting another dog, is wrong. Telling us that this might be enough to throw you over the edge shows that another dog was not a good idea. If you commit suicide, who takes care of your dogs?

Your refusal to listen and attempt to recreate your admissions is disturbing. So your insurance hasn’t kicked-in. You said you’re well paid. Talk to a shrink. It might help.

You already differentiated between “smacks” and beating. You said it wasn’t a one time only thing.