Go to www.bankersonline.com.
Go to the forums.
Ask in the consumer forum, “Ask a Banker.”
You’ll have 3 compliance officers tell you it’s legal, and 4 bankers remark on how they hate it when people do that.
The big problem with SD boxes is really that they DO get seized if the Feds decide to drop on you like a ton of bricks… sometimes the safest way to store you assets really IS in gold coins buried in a Maxwell House can.
I think one of those cans would actually hold over $1,000,000 USD if you filled it with large-denomination Canadian gold coins…
[QUOTE=Mr. Slant]
Go to www.bankersonline.com.
Go to the forums.
Ask in the consumer forum, “Ask a Banker.”
[//quote]
Ask what?
I hate to go to that old SMDB standby, but I used to be a CSR at a good-sized bank, and dealing with safety deposit boxes was a regular part of my responsibility. In my state, at least, it’s illegal–or was till '02–to keep cash in boxes–but also impossible for the bank to enforce, as our policy was to give the customer privacy while htey went through their boxes unless they specifically ask for assistance. The default was to step around the corner; if it was particularly busy on desk side, we’d leave them in the vault till they signalled that they were done. It was a mild pain, yes, but every job has 'em, and this wasn’t bad.
How precisely would the IRS detect this? Suppose my household makes $80,000 a year; are they going to notice if we spend like we make $100,000? Who the heck would be the guy at the IRS who would notice that?
No, your best best is to slip the money into transactions where cash will not raise any eyebrows. Launder it at a casino if need be.
A flaw with the “use it for spending cash” plan:
I think the feds might find a lack of ATM withdrawals suspicious.
In the bribery trial of former Atlanta mayor Bill Campbell, one bit of circumstantial evidence presented was that he never made ATM withdrawals, which suggested that his walking-around money was coming from some other source.
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
I was proposing that someone ask in a forum well-stocked with bank compliance officers, not CSRs. I apologize if my post was unclear.
I’ll need a cite for it actually being illegal in your state to keep cash in an SD box, otherwise I’ll assume your trainer was wrong or perhaps lying through oversimplification.
The IRS has cracked more than a few vending machine tax dodgers, they have also nailed things like laundromats based on power and water usage. Vending machines have inventory which can be tracked. Set up a camera nearby and monitor how many people visit the machine for a week or two, extrapolate.
Yup, that’s the route I’d go too. Use it for groceries, entertainment, small items. LOVE the declaring gambling winnings idea. But wouldn’t you have to have proof o f some sort from the establisment from whence you “won” your cash?
They don’t have to give you a record of winnings unless it exceeds a certain amount (forget the number), and they will definitely report that to the IRS. With smaller winnings, you may not get any receipt depending on the casino/racetrack’s policies. However, it seems you would have to gamble a whole lot in order to get multiple smaller winnings that total $15,000, so that may be a red flag for the IRS.
I earn enough that I could slip >$25,000 annually into my budget without raising eyebrows. In the next 10 years, we’ll already be paying for home renovations, college for two children, at least one, maybe two new cars. We have two sets of elderly parents (one living with us), so undocumented home health care would be good. All of this fits into my current salary range; but by keeping a low profile, I won’t raise any suspicion at the IRS. Simply paying for all utilities, groceries, clothes shopping, gas, dining out, entertainment costs, and most vacation spending with cash. To run through the bills a little faster, I would open up a bank account at a different bank than I currently have. I would start withdrawing cash from my main account, then deposit the found $$ in the new account. I could do $2,000 a week; it might appear quirky, but certainly within my means.
While the IRS can dig up an impressive paper trail should they audit you, the chances of an audit are laughable. All you need to do is avoid red flags. Someone can correct me, but I don’t think things like auto sales are automatically reported and reviewed, nor are home renovations (except, of course, as income by the auto salesperson or the renovator). If I don’t give the IRS a reason to look at me, they won’t. I’ll just appear as a fiscally responsible, if somewhat quirky, taxpayer.
I’ve got to caution against buying cars with cash. The trouble is that cars are trackable…you have to license them, they have unique serial numbers. So when you buy a car with cash, the IRS can find the dealership you bought it from, they can track the entire history of the car and find out exactly how much you paid for it and how.
Whereas ordinary consumer goods aren’t trackable like this. So if you have a $3000 cabinet you bought with cash, there’s no way for the IRS to figure out exactly how much you bought the cabinet for, who you bought it from, or how you paid for it. You can just claim you bought it at a garage sale for $100 bucks, it looked expensive, but the guy had to sell everything.
So stay away from firearms, cars, and any other trackable purchase.
Heh. I can just see some guy putting a couple of his washing machines in a continuous duty cycle to simulate more business than he really gets, then declaring extra cash incomg.
drachillix, I’ll bet the guys you’re mentioning were cheating by more than 100%. I can’t imagine the IRS catching you solely because your electrical and water bills were off by 15%.
The IRS can track a car purchase. But do they? Car purchases are very, very common. Sure, buying a $250,000 Ferrari is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. If I buy a $50,000 Lexus, then it behooves me to finance, and pay via money order (with accelerated payments).
Paying cash outright, especially more than $10,000, will alert the Treasury Department, who might refer you to the IRS (who, if memory serves, report up through Treasury). Putting $9,000 down, financing for 36 months and paying off in 18 - they’ll never know unless you give them a reason to go looking.
Careful.
Intentionally avoiding the reporting requirement takes you from “showing up a little on the radar” to “flat-out breaking the law” if you’re not careful.
See structuring:
http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/ch26s17.html
Actually what occurred to me was paying $10K for the
2002 Lincoln Navigator I’ve seen sitting in a grass lot way out in the boonies
[spoiler in case **Aeschines** is reading this.]
You’d have to give the guy cash, or a cashier’s check, anyway. When gas prices go down, sell the thing and hope to get 90% of what you paid.
Start taking international vacations, and while on them, pick up whatever gemstones are locally mined. Pay cash. Squirrel them away someplace, and then years later, bring them out and sell them. 20 years from now, no one is going to be able to tell how much you really paid for the sapphires from Indonesia. Heck, you might even MAKE money with this, rather then getting a percentage of your original investment.
Holding gemstones for 20 years is a really risky idea, because the quality and size of synthetics of all kinds is getting better and better. Right now there’s a huge marketing campaign to convince people to buy “real, natural” gemstones, instead of “fake, artificial” gemstones…but there’s no guarantee this will protect gemstone prices for another 20 years.
In other words, 20 years from now you might find yourself with a cache of worthless pretty rocks. Better idea is to bring them in, then “find” them in Grandma’s attic and sell them as soon as possible and pay the IRS it’s cut on the sale.
Of course, travelling with large amounts of cash has it’s own problems. If you can do that, why not just head to the Turks and Caicos and open a bank account?
Might have been I don’t know the specifics just broad strokes from Mom (IRS criminal investigations at the time).
As a business ownerI know heavy water consuming businesses like this also get billed for all the water they use, so letting machines run to cover your ass probably never occurred to them. I agree most people who get tagged are going waaay off the deep end.
Split it up in several batches and put it in lockers in several different self storage facilities. If by chance one gets broken into, you still have the others.
I love this thread, it picks up on one of my favourite fantasies!
Why would it be illegal to keep cash at a bank? I can’t think of a safer place. It’s my understanding that little ($500?) or no insurance is provided for SDBs, but that’s a different issue.