My first rection to Jehovah’s witnesses being in the title was that was that it was appropriate (in the pit) since their religion justified beating a child to death, and that is a twisted version of what Jehovah’s witnesses believe.
That is to say, that maybe the standard interpretation of the bible is great, but it leaves itself open to misinterpretation. Then I realised that this is the same argument about people playing Doom and then shooting people, but I’m on the other side of it.
So, I’d say it’s OK to say when we’re lashing out, but maybe not in a serious comment, at least, not without some mention of how likely they’d be to be fucked up anyway.
I just thought this was worth mentioning, plus [humour] I’m in england in winter, so I need to be flamed a bit to keep from freezing. [/humour]
I doubt that anybody is morally offended about jokes about death in general. And I can even understand sick jokes about celebrities. As I said, humor can be a valve to relieve stress and grief. But, I do not, I cannot, find any humor about a child who was tortured to death. It’s not funny to me.
Here’s an example of where I think the dividing line between black humor and unacceptable callousness is.
What’s the hardest part of getting AIDS?
Trying to convince your mother you’re Haitian.
This, to me, is an OK joke that isn’t specifically about AIDS, but about the dubious status of homosexuals in our society. It’s not poking fun at gay people or AIDS, but at a world where you have to lie about who you are to make your illness socially acceptable.
Here’s another one.
What’s GAY stand for?
Got AIDS Yet?
Not even remotely funny. Just vicious and hateful.
I admit I told jokes about Princess Grace’s death (What’s the new Monaco national anthem? “She’ll be coming 'round the mountain.”), but I would never tell one to Princess Stephanie. I don’t think she’s find jokes about hwer mother humorous.
I never told jokes about Ethiopians during the 1984 famine. There is just something horrible to me about well-fed people living in a free society mocking the hideous misery inflicted on innocent people by the monstrous Mengistu regime. It was just not funny.
See, now that’s a lie. Where in this thread did I say anyone here was “irredeemably evil”? I don’t think there was even any inference of that. At worst, I’d say some people here are callous, which is not synonymous with evil. You should choose your words with more care, and reply to what I actually say.
Sounded to me like you wanted a Mod to delete that post. This is a perfect example of why nobody’s allowed to edit or delete their own posts.
Let me guess, you’re aspiring to be the next Howard Stern or Greaseman? Saying crap like “I hope they at least fed the baby to a starving Irish kid.” would get even Howeird off the air. And you wonder why everyone’s so upset? I’d gladly give you a dollar to go buy a clue.
I believe you’re wrong. Just as there are certain subjects you feel are not appropriate material for humor, there are other subjects that others might feel similarly about.
Just to make sure I understand: anything vaguely humorous involving harm to children is right out? If that’s the case, I understand. But I hope you understand that it’s possible for many people to make light of something horrible without minimizing the horror, and without ridiculing the subject. Making a crass joke might well be gleeful enjoyment of someone’s pain . . . but I submit that’s rarely the case. Maybe those are the rose-colored glasses talking.
I’ve seen some of the worst shit humans can do to each other and their children. Fuck, all I had to do was read a few hundred CPS casefiles to see more than I ever wanted–and that was before actually meeting the subjects of those casefiles. A girl beaten to death with an electrical cord is fucking horrible, and I’ve met kids who prayed they could have it that easy. Some kids haven’t been allowed to die.
I can break down in tears when I hear this kind of shit, gobear, and I have done. Or I can cope with it the best I know how so I can continue fighting it.
If you find me callous or offensive, I’m sorry. And you’re free to think whatever you want of me. But if you think I care any less than you, you’re wrong.
If you look at it closely, you’ll see that everything that is acknowledged to be funny is somehow related to a situation that is painful or uncomfortable. (Excepting incongruity-based humour.) This is because the main function of humour is pain relief. It blows off stress. It’s healthy.
Clearly, llamasex was not amused by the situation. (s)he was using irony to convey dissaproval for severe corporal punishment as a disciplinary tool, no? It was pretty damned eloquent.
As for Mr. Llama’s post, it was sarcastic, but it wasn’t even aimed at any one posting here, and this is The Pit. Banning someone for being sarcastic is wrong simply because it offends people. (Ambiguity can be your friend.)
I also linked to the closed thread. It is inexcusable for anyone on this thread to deliberately put the moderators to extra work deleting their personal information. You’ve been told not to post it, don’t! This is like deliberately spilling your milk just to watch mommy clean it up.
The OP here was important for us to know about. We now also know everyone’s opinion about it, and that some people make sick sarcastic jokes. Enough already. I understand that a lot of people on the board here are teenagers (and others act that way), but one of the nicest things about our various internet communities are that we generally don’t flame bait each other. Show your disagreement, tell us what you think and why, but respect each other.
And llamasex, what made your joke even worse was that the daughter really wasn’t doing anything even remotely deserving of any sort of beating. She was being interrogated, horribly tortured by her father, after no one in the family could answer his question. It was as if you didn’t read the story.
I asked him to explain his post. He said “I was being Sarcasatic”, which is a poor explination.
If you have to say that you were being sarcastic, you obviously didnt do a good enough job of it in the first place.
Llamasex, a lot of people on this board are conditioned to think the worst of a post. I for one, are one of them. I hope I didnt kickstart this. I still think your joke was out of line, but I dont think you should be banned.
Wendell Wagner: He was also a fellow of Trinity College Dublin, hence the “Trinity Dean” remark.
Thank you–my children are being homeschooled and I strongly dislike the implication that people who homeschool are fanatics who secret their kids away just so they can beat them to death. The way the OP was phrased seem to say that being JW and homeschooling were part of what led to this dispicable act. In fact, the reason I chose to homeschool was because I found the influence of public school on children to be strongly negative. After all–it wasn’t homeschooled kids who attacked at Columbine High. And over and over we hear that the reason for such attacks is because the kids at school were treating them so horribly. (NOT that I accept this excuse–I too was VERY unpopular in school–I know how vicious other kids can be, but I never took a weapon to class a blew away the students)
My only point here is that a shithead is a shithead–whether homeschooled or public schooled. These people were shitheads–plain and simple.
Actually I fudged up here, I posted my personal information, she/he just linked to my webpage, which is in my Sig IIRC when I use it. I was going to say I was sorry to the mod, but the thread was already closed when I got to it.
Did llamasex perhaps email his sarcastic comment to this girl’s family? No? Are you this girl’s family, gobear? No?
Then how is your tasteless joke about the death of Grace Kelly any less offensive than his tastless comment about that child? Is it that Grace Kelly is a grown-up? Does it matter??
I understand that child abuse is a hot-button issue with you, Rysdad and others. But you should understand that not eveyone has the same buttons. He said it was sarcasm, you still didn’t like it. That should have been it, days ago.
Quit flogging him, it’s getting tiresome and it’s making you guys look bad. You’re not jerks, please stop acting like jerks.
Mods, have we driven this thread into the ground yet? If not, could we maybe start again? With Hamlet’s permission, of course, as it was his OP?
So, then it’s OK with you guys to tell Holocaust jokes, for example? After all, it’s just sarcasm, right? The Greaseman joking about James Byrd being dragged to death is just a harmless kneeslapper, huh? Anybody know any good WTC jokes?
The “feeding her to a hungry Irish kid” wasn’t funny, nor was it even an accurate reference to Swift’s A Modest Proposal. But, you guys think a child’s death is a fit subject for jokes, so I won’t spoil your fun.
Sure, it’s ok by me (speaking as a Jew)… I’ll even laugh if I think they are funny, but even if I don’t, I won’t go on a days long tirade about it.
I don’t know this reference.
I don’t, but there was a multi-page thread over in MPSIMS not too long ago. I didn’t read it, but did you put up this much of a fuss about that? I certainly don’t recall an increase of pit threads calling for the banning of people that chose to try to find the humour in the WTC tragedy that soon after it happened.
As you said:
It’s horrible what happened to you as a child … things like that should NEVER happen to ANY child. You said that you make Princess Grace jokes, but would never make them to her daughter. Well, llamasex wasn’t makinge a joke directly towards you about your abuse.
Point is: you’re free to be overly-sensitive about certain subjects, but you can not expect the collective membership of the board to tip-toe around those subjects. There is always going to be someone to get offended by what another person says … the membership of the board is too large and diverse for this not to be the case. I think this is a hot issue to you, which maybe makes you not the best person to be debating the issue.
Or you can tell me to go fuck myself… whatever.
Moving on—
I happened to read this thread when it first started and immediately realised that llamasex was being sarcastic. I read his subsequent pit thread and the rest of this thread… sheesh, you people need to get a fucking grip. Not everything that gets posted without a freakin’ smiley is an attack on everything you hold dear. Not every post that’s in poor humour is from a troll.
WHAT?! A little girl is dead, and you’re making insensitive remarks like that?! Can we get a mod over here? 5… 4… 3…
[sub]DISCLAIMER: The author of this post wishes to make it clear to all members that the intent was ironic. (This means that Larry Mudd does not actually want to see pohjonen punished for his remark.)[/sub]
gobear, I am sure there are plenty of gay men out there who would take huge offence to your comment that the “how do I tell mom I’m Haitian” AIDS joke was ok.
Don’t you see? None of us are saying that we think this child’s death was funny. What we are saying is that you are overreacting to a really bad joke.
No-one is belittling what happened to you. Reading your story of what happened to you almost made me cry, as a mom and a mom-to-be. I cannot imagine or condone any kind of cruelty to a child, especially one’s own.
But that doesn’t mean that I can’t understand someone making light of it as a bad joke. Everything could offend somebody. But nobody came unglued about MGibson and my references to our deceased family member’s ashes, even thought many people find no humor AT ALL in jokes that make light of death.
I thought Hamlet’s post at the end of the closed thread was very good.
llamasex is not what’s wrong with this board. Knee-jerk bullshit and inflexible attitudes may be.
(Of course, start trashing AA or something, and I’ll have to slaughter you without waiting for an explanation… )
I believe this is appropriate use of a smilie to convey that the author is making a joke, or some similar attempt at humor, lame as it might be. Is that ok with everybody?
I don’t know this reference.
)