People people people! Does no one think they are over reacting at all? The kids went to the woods! By all indications, the school doesn’t make it a policy to misinform parents. Sure they should have mentioned that is was an outdoor fieldtrip, but is this really something that someone should be fired over?
As a disclaimer, no I don’t have any children.
People people people! Does no one think they are over reacting at all? Michael Jackson only dangled his baby over the balcony once. By all indications, he doesn’t make it a policy of doing this all of the time. Sorry, had to be snarky. 
Hell no, we aren’t over reacting. Mabye it is a parent v. non-parent thing but if somebody puts my child at risk - even if it isn’t “policy” but a one time thing and even if it is a small risk - heads will roll. You know how they say never get between a mama bear and her cubs…well, similar thing.
Wow, I didn’t think this really rated an argument.
OK, it’s like this. I want to take your kids to a “pool”.
You later find out I actually took them to a lake where alligators normally roam.
Did I lie?
If I was a school administor should I be fired?
To answer your question, yes. Fired or at least severely sanctioned. The fact that the school LIED to the parents about where the students were going is a big issue. What if there had been an emergency? If a child had gotten hurt on this trip, there would have been an even bigger stink. Parents weren’t given the opportunity to dress the children properly. Deva even said that she had sprayed a hair product in her child’s hair but would not have if she had been informed. Said hair product ended up causing major problems but that could have been avoided IF SHE HAD BEEN INFORMED. What about the other kids who could have potentially been wearing the wrong footwear on a hike? As a child, I had ankle problems and hiking without the appropriate footwear was dangerous to me. If my parents had thought I was just going to a technical school and not hiking, it’s quite possible that I would have worn a dress and dress shoes. That’s definitely not hiking wear.
Outdoor fieldtrips in 90+ degree weather are significantly different than indoor fieldtrips. They require more preparation and more awareness. We are aware of more dangers now and there are insect-borne viruses that weren’t around 20 years ago. Parents have a right to be informed about what their children are doing, especially in a school that is supposed to be taking care of the children and responsible for their welfare. This was an extremely irresponsible move on the part of whoever was in charge. Deva’s child is lucky to have a parent who obviously cares.
Not exactly, then again you wouldn’t have been completely honest either.
Yes, for putting kids in a situation that could have resulted in them being eaten. Quite a bit diffrent from them potentially getting heatstroke.
blainer:
I don’t know about fired. Severely repremanded, certainly. Fired is a distinct possibility.
Whether or not the school makes it a policy to misinform parents is irrelevant.
birdgirl:
To offset your anecdotal data, here’s mine: Every summer my family went either to the Redwoods or up to Yosemite. Much hiking was done. Most of it in forested areas.
I am also very fair skinned. I also burn easily. I have gotten burned after spending all day in the woods; once severely.
The point isn’t that the kids were outside. The point was that the parents were prevented from making sure their children took the precautions that you yourself say you take when spending time outside. That is why Deva is so upset.
Additionally, it does not sound from the OP like the kids particularly enjoyed themselves:
One does not generally come back from an enjoyable experience “pissed.”
I am not a parent.
Jeff Olsen
Dead is dead. Heatstroke kills, just like alligators do.
So do many of us. Perhaps that would stop you from being a thorough jerk, tossing stones at others because your Pioneer spirit is offended by those who aren’t as hardy as you.
:rolleyes:
I dunno, I’m at work so I can’t pull up the stats, but I’d say getting eaten by alligators is probably less likely than dying of, say, an allergic reaction to something in the woods? Or asthma? Or being eaten by a bear? 
The issue really isn’t that it’s dangerous or not (I just wanted to counter birdgirl’s comments). The issue is, is the description of “technology school” and a 5 hour hike through the woods the same thing?
Please add my name to the list of folk who like to have at least a general idea of where my kids are when they are in other folks’ care.
birdgirl - I don’t know you from these boards well enough to believe that you could possibly be as clueless as you are presenting yourself. You seem to be doing a good job of baiting some folk, tho. Congrats.
I’m not sure this is a fireable offense, but I would certainly expect the school to take specific concrete steps to ensure that this type of thing did not happen again in the future, or my kid would shortly be enrolled elsewhere.
I have to call BULLSHIT on this. I’ve had basal cell skin cancers removed twice, and I never, and I mean never, have purposely laid out in the sun to get a tan. I grew up in a very warm climate and spent all my childhood summer days out playing ball, fishing, swimming, etc. Normal kid stuff.
If your personal preference is to spend time outdoors on a hot day, fine, but please don’t think that everyone else is inferior or overprotective because they don’t share it with you.
The real issue here is that under ANY circumstances, the day care school should have made sure the parents understood where their kids would be and what they would be doing. Anything less is outrageous and DEVA has every right to be pissed.
I really don’t mean to be snarky, but when someone compares a walk in the wood or the possibility of heatstroke in the woods (agian, the water!) with swimming with aligators, I have to suggest that there is a slight overreaction.
I think that birdgirl may be taking it a bit far, but, really, what is the chance of serious danger to a nine year old with a bunch of other kids and teachers in the woods?
Again, as a disclaimer, I am speaking from a purely academic standpoint as I do not have children.
And that is probably where all of the opinions are going to vary. I DO have children and for me to decide to take my kids on a 5 hour walk through the woods is one thing. For a day school to decide for me and basically do it without my permission is a totally different matter and you are damn skippy I would raise hell about it.
In fact, I wish DEVA would post so we could know what happened.
birdgirl no one’s disputing that kids benefit from playing outdoors. That’s not the issue here at all.
Why did the school send home permission slips at all? Because parent’s are entitled to know what their children are doing. Period.
Some children might have had health problems with allergies or whatever, the permission slip should have served as warning so that precautions could be taken. What wonderful memories these kids might have of blisters from the wrong shoes, scratched and bug-bitten legs, sunburn depending on the shade available, heatstroke, dehydration…all preventable. No one’s saying kids need to be caged to a Nintendo, just adequately prepared for the activity.
I’m one of those parents that have helped an asthmatic student during a petting zoo field trip, the parents didn’t make the child stay home, just sent her breathing treatment equipment along with instructions. No one’s suggesting that other parents wouldn’t do the same, so what’s your issue??
OK, let’s let the Indian Pipe Outdoor Technical School speak for itself. I typed in the words “indian pipe” into Google, and it was the second hit. Not hard to find information about it…DEVA certainly could have looked this up.
WOW, sounds awesome!
And, they have a very experienced staff who know how to deal with large groups of children in the outdoors. So it wasn’t like they were on some death march through the woods for five hours…surely the staff had structured activities and supervised the group.
I think DEVA was exaggerating a little.
Also, this place is “Nestled in the foothills of the Blue Ridge” in Linden, Virginia. I seriously doubt they had a code red day there. They don’t have city-level pollution out there!
Here’s an example of the types of programs they have:
Sounds like a wonderful experience! What parent WOULDN’T want there kid coming to a place like this?
Note: they do tell campers to be prepared, bring sunscreen, bug repellent, etc. So, YES the dumbass who planned the trip should have taken the 3 minutes to check the web site and pass this information along. At the same time, however, why didn’t the parents of the 38 kids simply type “indian pipe” into Google, and look up the site? If DEVA is so concerned about where her kids are going, why didn’t she check the place out? Why didn’t she ask for details about what the kids would be doing? Didn’t any of the 76 parents think to ask for more information about the trip? Heck, if my kid was going to be taken 1 hour and 15 minutes away, I would definetly want more information about what they were doing.
Yes, the director should have been more detailed about the trip. But, don’t parents also have an obligation to be proactive and to get the information they want? If they don’t get answers, they could always say no. I would have had my curiosity especially aroused when the director said “Oh, it’s some sort of technology school in the mountains. I think the field trip is going to be kind of lame.” That would set off alarm bells. Wouldn’t that prompt you to ask, “what type of technology? Where in the mountains? What will they be doing there? What makes you say it’s going to be lame?” I’m just wondering why these questions were never asked. I guess hindsight is 20/20.
Hmmm, we may be on to something here - you’re the third poster without children who doesn’t think the topic in question is a big deal. I worry about where my kids are/if they’re OK every second I’m away from them; I doubt that will ever change. And, I’d be furious if my children’s school officials didn’t have the presence of mind to fully inform me about school outings.
Birdgirl Okay…pay attention…
I don’t care if this day school took the kids to the Happy Fun Land of Puppies and Kitties or to the Ice Cream Parlor or to heaven to meet Jesus H. Christ himself, if they did it without the parent’s permission and the parents knowing where their children were THEY WERE WRONG.
Very simple. Not sure why you are having such a difficult time with this.
Oh, and for the record I don’t have kids. I dont’ want kids.
But if I had kids you could be sure my SO and I would be pissed if we were told “technical school” and it really ment some sort of outdoor camp. No, I wouldn’t be worried for my kid’s safety, I’d just be pissed that I wasn’t told exactly what they were doing.
“Eaten” was an exaggeration and a reference to Live and Let Die. The gator attack thread by ivylass has some good info.
I believe a child with heat stroke is easier to treat than one with a 'gator bite if the required first-aid equipment is nearby.
On preview: birdgirl, I used Google too but I’m not so sure it would have helped. IIRC, DEVA hadn’t known if that was the correct name prior to the trip.
See my previous post. Explain how they were prevented from finding out where the kids were going. It took me under 60 seconds to find out everything about the place just by knowing two words. You’re telling me not one of 76 parents were able to do this? Amazing. Were their mouths duct-taped and thus they were prevented from asking questions about the place?
The director didn’t lie. She said it was a technical school in the mountains. That is absolutely true. Didn’t someone think to ask what was meant by “technical school?” If you thought it was like a computer school or something, wouldn’t one wonder why it was in the mountains, or why they were driving 1 hour 15 minutes to get there when there are hundreds of them around the DC area?
I didn’t quite catch it in DEVA’s posts… Is she saying that there were no permissions slips whatsoever, and that the daycare center took the kids without their parents knowing? I don’t think she ever said this. I think there were permission slips, or at least the parents knew a field trip was planned. Surely the name of the place was on the permission slip. If the permission slip just said they were going to some nondescript technical school, then I’m amazed that the parents let their 38 kids go.
If you think the director was purposefully lying about the field trip, what do you think her motive would have been? Come on, trying to say the director purposefully lied and misled the parents is silly. Why would she do this? What would she have to gain by this?