Are you really going from arguing the incident isn’t a big deal, to implying that it’s the parents’ fault for not asking questions? I would assume, if my children were at a reputable school I wouldn’t need to ask such questions.
Wow. Why, indeed, are you having such a difficult time with this.
Either that or people in Canada are unfamiliar with alligators. 
Stopping bleeding and applying an emergency tourniquet is MUCH easier than treating heat stroke.
Not only do you have to work with hydrating the heat stroke victim, you have to reduce their core temperature.
In both the Gator Bite and heatstroke one has to be concerned with shock setting in, but in heatstroke you have to be concerned about delerium caused by overheating, the potential for brain damage, and the inability to get the victim to drink water and the probable lack of availability of an IV to set up hydration.
My experience working with the Red Cross as a teen with the Fire Rescue Explorers, ten years as a nursing assistant, and two years as a phlebotomist say you are incorrect.
So, your belief would be wrong.
blainer- YES, someone could and quite possibly should be fired over this. Up until six months ago, I was a pre-school and after-school teacher. (I have since, of my own accord, begun working out of my home as a private nanny.) In this state, this type of action would most definitely result in termination.
North Carolina has an organization called NAEYC, which regulates all daycare centers, after-school programs, childcare facilities, etc. They have certain standards which must be met in order for a center to remain in operation. Centers are given a rating using stars. This rating works much like the letter-grade system used for restaurants. If the standards are not met, a center loses its license and is shut down. A low rating will result in an inspection and conferences with everyone involved in the center’s daily operations. Improvements, upgrades, and employment decisions are made at this time.
There is a manual which details the standards that a center (including all employees- teachers or otherwise) MUST live up to. It states:
“Learn about the children: their names, their parents’ names, pick-up procedures, allergies, etc.”
“The safety of children is top priority.”
"Gather and bring the following on ALL field trips:
Sunblock
Blanket
Complete First Aid Kit
Paper towels and spray bottles of water and hand soap for cleaning hands
Drinking water and disposable cups
Student medications (if any)"
"Plan for the field trip:
Ask all parents to complete a field trip permission form. A child may not attend if they do not have a signed permission slip on file.
Notify parents where the children are going, what they will be doing and when they will return."
There is, of course, much more- but the above alone is enough for disciplinary action to be taken. It may vary from state-to-state, but I feel fairly well assured in saying that the above would change very little.
DEVA, you SHOULD be angry. The decisions about how to prepare your child for a particular activity ultimately rest with you, not the school. They most assuredly have no right to withhold ANY information. I’d take the issue to the regional director. If nothing comes of the discussion, I’d find another school to work at and send my child to. I couldn’t work somewhere such negligence took place. YMMV, of course.
Because if we aren’t all hardy survivalists willing to send our offspring into the woods, we’re worthy of her scorn and inability to read.
I stand corrected. Thanks, Mockingbird.
Sheesh, you make a simple comparison and see the shit you get into?
Listen, alligator attacks= rare. Dying in the woods = rare. Don’t tell me either doesn’t happen though.
Just the west nile virus issue alone makes sense for parents to slather their kids with bug spray. And that virus kills kids.
I don’t really give a rip if it’s easy to find information about the school by doing a Google search. I shouldn’t have to do a Web search to find out simple, basic information about a field trip that the school should have provided me in the first place. If the trip is to a “technology school”, I am going to assume that like most schools, it is an indoor environment. If the trip is going to involve an outdoor hike, I expect to be informed of this so that I can send the appropriate supplies along with my child.
In neither case do I expect to have to do a Web search or root around doing research on my own, to find out what precautions/supplies my child needs to take. Sure, maybe I’d want to, just to find out a little more about what my kid was going to be doing. But as far as basic information about the trip, like whether it’s going to be OUTSIDE or not, that’s the school’s responsibility to provide. I believe parents can have a reasonable expectation that the schools will provide such basic information.
I am interested by the apparent change in birdgirl’s argument, from “Parents are way too overprotective of their children,” to “Parents need to be way more protective of their children.” Apparently it is ridiculous to send children out into the woods with sunscreen and bug spray, but we should all be expected to sit down and do Web searches before allowing them to go on school field trips.
No, you pay attention. The parents gave permission. They signed permissions slips. All we know is ONE parent out of more than 70 parents didn’t realize what the place was. Here’s what she did know: it’s called Indian Pipe Technical School. But wait, it’s really called Indian Pipe Outdoor Technical School. So the director MUST have purposefully lied and mislead with some evil intention, possibly causing death and tragedy! Of course not. That’s is precisely what I am having difficulty with, Aries28…
So, as I said, we know DEVA didn’t understand from the permission slip what the field trip was. But do we know if the other parents were also in the dark? I doubt it. I mean, if DEVA is saying that the only descriptive information on the permission slip was the nondescript words “technical school,” I have a hard time believing that. And if it is true, I have a hard time believing 70 parents signed it without questioning it. That is what I’m having difficulty understanding.
Yes, Blonde, I think the OP is an overreaction. From everything DEVA has told us, I think it was an accidental miscommunication, not gross negligence, and yes I think the parent shares some of the blame. No one has answered the question: why didn’t she ask if she didn’t know??? Why would you parents, who are so fiercely protective of their kids, just “assume” anything? Or not raise questions about a permission slip that was apparently so lacking in information? If the name of the place, and its address, etc., were not listed on the permission slip, wouldn’t you good and protective parents try to find out this information?
I burn in the shade. Spending 5 hours outdoors, no matter where or when (providing the sun is out, of course) without sunblock is GUARANTEED painful, awful, peeling sunburn.
Also, I have asthma. I do not carry my inhaler on me, as it’s only exercise-induced. If I was unaware that I would going to be hiking, I would have been fucked.
This seems like a pretty egregious mistake the person made. I have no kids, but this is <b>major</b> problem IMHO.
She did ask, even the director didn’t know.
The teachers were in the dark, as were the kids.
Obviously, whomever planned the trip didn’t communicate to anyone what it was about. That’s a rather large mishap, and not the parent’s fault.
Deva has every right to demand answers, I would too.
Might not be as simple as you think.
Children are taken on a LOT of field trips - one morning I sleepily signed a permission slip, turns out my 7 yr-old son was taken to see an opera. Which is fine, of course, but I had absolutely no recollection that was the activity planned. The point is, he didn’t need bugspray or sunscreen to attend an opera. The school administrators are to blame in DEVA’s experience.
Okay, let me put this in words of one syllable: Kids with asthma, on a Code Red day, who are sent out into the woods for five hours, which is often a location for THE most severe allergies for them, without their parents being notified in advance that they will BE hiking in the woods for five hours, can DIE from an asthma attack.
As in DEAD.
Kids who are allergic to bees or wasps, who get stung (and don’t tell me there aren’t bees or wasps in the woods), and aren’t prepared with the proper medications to counter the anaphyllactic shock because mommy thought they’d be sitting in a nice air-conditioned building all day, can DIE.
As in DEAD.
Kids who suffer from heatstroke need prompt, intensive medical care, by trained professionals, not an unprepared daycare teacher out in the woods (see Mockingbird’s post). (Do we even know if any of the teachers on the trip were first aid certified???) This is no laughing matter. I’ve seen an entire medical tent full of kids with heatstroke, and a whole bunch of emergency medical personnel having to be called in to take care of them. And this was five minutes from a large Army hospital, where there at least WERE trained personnel available.
All of these are nothing to laugh at. If it was my kids and I was taking them out in the woods, great. We’d know the risks and the hazards and BE PREPARED for them.
But taking someone else’s kids out, without providing full information on the field trip forms – and yes, as a parent, I can assure you that most of us are so used to schools providing, if anything, more information on the field trip forms than we believed could ever be necessary, even for a trip across the street, so that we tend to believe that we ARE being given full information – the school was setting itself up for disaster. Plus BREAKING THE LAW.
Birdgirl, what part of “breaking the law” don’t you understand? Or what part of “Oops, Little Susie just died from an asthma attack because we didn’t have her breathing medications with us because her mom didn’t know we were taking her into the woods and we’re a three-hour hike from the nearest telephone” don’t you understand?
And by the way, Deva, did the permission slip you signed have on it, like the millions I’ve signed over the years, a simple box to check for “wear appropriate clothing,” “bring your lunch,” “wear a hat,” etc.? If it had the boxes and they weren’t checked off, that’s even more damning.
Sorry, Birdgirl, the school just utterly and completely failed in their duty to protect the safety and welfare of the children in their charge. No matter how nice a walk in the woods is (and I can’t imagine a walk with a 107 heat index is exactly fun), that is NOT THE ISSUE. Stop trying to pretend like we’re all a bunch of SUV-driving über-Yuppies whose little darlings have never had a ray of sun hit their unsunscreened heads. That’s NOT THE ISSUE.
Okay, I know I’m responding to the bait. I just fail to see how someone can be so STUPID as to not understand that you can do this stuff with your OWN children (although you’d be a complete imbecile if you did without proper preparation), but not with SOMEONE ELSE’S children. Period. If you do, it’s ILLEGAL.
From the OP:
Birdgirl, if you can’t be bothered to read the previous posts in the thread, I’d further ask you not to bother to continue to post your argumentative replies.
Holy shit, man, relax. The Great Burning Orb isn’t that dangerous. What the heck kind of childhood is that kid having if access to sunlight is so damned restricted? Kids like sunlight. Kids like walking in the woods. Chill.
If the permission slip said Indian Pipe Technical School, then I would think it was an indoor school. It’s the school’s responsibilty to tell the parent what the field trip is about. If the name, address, etc, was listed on the permission slip, then why should the parent have done any extra research? The school provides the information, the parent decides if their child should go based on that information. Most of my permission slips were like that and my parents didn’t overquestion. Usually all information that was needed to know is provided by the school. That’s THEIR responsibility since THEY are carrying out the field trip. It’s the school’s job to keep the parents properly informed. The parents should not have to do extra work because the school messed up.
On Preview What the others have said before me.
I second the info about asthma. So very true.
OK let’s stop and assume for a second that you’re right, and I’m wrong. Well there are still some unanswered questions. Please help me understand…
OK, you’re right…the school should provide all the information before the trip. So, what if they don’t? Don’t you, as a parent, ASK for the information? Or just not sign the slip? If the information wasn’t provided, why the hell didn’t a single parent ask? I have a hard time buying that.
And if ALL that was provided was the words “technical school,” and nothing else, such as what they were going to do, what the place is called, why didn’t anyone ask for more information?
And why didn’t DEVA, when she asked the director, and all the director said was it was a “technical school in the mountains,” why didn’t DEVA simply ask what they would be doing? Why didn’t she ask? The director was standing right in front of her. It’s not like the director replied with a lie and said “oh, it’s a technical school, and they’ll be inside working on computers all day.” No, she said nothing, and no one asked. I just can’t understand this? What am I missing here?
I haven’t changed my argument. I simply have two arguments now. 1) she was overreacting, kids playing in the woods is a fun and healthy part of childhood; and 2) I turned around everyone else’s mantra of the importance of being overprotective, and asked the question, “OK you want to be overprotective. Fine. Then tell me why no one asked for more information when it wasn’t provided on the permission slip? Or why the parents signed the slips when complete information was not given.”
Can someone please answer this?
Nah. She comes off as simple minded as we think.
As per usual, you’re being overly simplistic.
Because of pollution and other environmental factors, the sun is more intense, requiring kids to wear sunscreen and having water with them to reduce the chances of severe sunburn and heat exhaustion or heat stroke.
Times change.
So, you chill and do what you want with your kids.
Other parents are conscious of the world around them, even if you and Birdgirl wish to behave as if it was otherwise.