So this thing is spreading. I mean, I have no doubt there have always been forms of protesting of some sort going on at any given time thousands of places across the US…
…but the thing that started in LA two or three days ago, it’s getting bigger. It’s inspiring others, in other cities, to stage really huge and more domineering protests.
In NYC, in Chicago, in San Francisco.
When or if it reaches you, do you think—at any time–you’ll go out and join the protest or walk with it?
Let’s say it started in your town/city on a wide scale and having to do with the current going ons in the US.
You joining in at all or no?
No, but not because I disagree with the fundamental reasons the protesters are protesting. It’s because I think the tactic of protesting in this particular case is at best useless. The way I see it, there’s only three possible outcomes for which these protesters can be said to have achieved their goal.
Convince members of the general public to support their cause when they previously weren’t. My guess is the number of voters for which this would be the case is extremely small. My hypothesis is that the number of voters across the entire nation who will change their vote from R to D based on these protests is almost certainly less than 1,000.
Convince those in power to change their position to support their positio. My guess is that not a single (R) elected or appointed official is going to change their mind and become pro-immigration based on these protests.
Overthrow the US government by force of arms. That is also obviously not going to happen, and even if it did, it would obviously be a bad thing.
So these protests, IMHO, have no chance of accomplishing useful. If anything they are making things worse.
Protests convince those who are afraid to speak or act, or feel it makes no difference, that the will of the populace is with them, that their voice can join in, that we are strong because we are united. They inspire bravery. And bravery inspires more bravery.
Protests don’t change the hardened minds who gave cause to the protests. No one expects that. But they can and do topple governments. Not by military force but by bringing the force of numbers to bear. When they become large enough, the government cannot function. Many officials slink away, or join the crowds. We’ve never had to do this, but many other countries have. Some with success.
Yes, I will be marching. Not in the next few days, because I’m physically in need of some repair, but yes. I’ve been invited to at least five locally. I marched last Saturday (pouring rain).
Remember that only 30% of voters are Republican. The rest are Democrats and Independents (more than a third of voters are neither party).
Remember that saying that the only requirement for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. I will not be doing nothing.
Isn’t this how most successful protests have worked? That is other than those that succeeded by force of arms. Take the gains made during the Civil Rights era in the 50s and 60s as an example. The ultimate mechanism by which success was achieved was by convincing Earl Warren, Dwight Eisenhower, and LBJ to support the Civil Rights cause. Had Earl Warren, Dwight Eisenhower, and LBJ been the Donald Trumps of their day, I’d bet the Civil Rights successes would have been much smaller and would have required a lot more bloodshed.
ETA. Or more recently, consider the progress of gay rights, especially the rights of gay people to marry. The success of that movement ultimately came down to convincing John Roberts to join their side. In the current situation, I don’t see any chance that any of the relevant elected or appointed officials can be convinced in that way.
ETA 2
I don’t plan to do nothing. I plan to show up to vote in November of next year and again in 2028 and vote D. As far as us ordinary Americans go, I’m of the opinion that’s the only effective action we have available to us.
Just want to mention, we did a very similar thread just over a month ago, though in P&E:
I’ll just cut and paste my response from there:
As I said on the various threads touching on the 4/9 protests, a big part of it is showing that they are not alone. There is a visceral impact of being part of a physical crowd (not always in a good sense, granted) that evokes a feeling of shared power.
In Trump 2.0 it’s very easy to feel isolated, alone, and powerless, and just give up. Being part of something bigger can counteract it to a degree. And even in purple, or red areas (like my own Colorado Springs) seeing that the smirking majority can be challenged is worthwhile.
It also can make local powers hesitate to a degree. Sure, local upset is unlikely to unseat Trump anytime in the near future, but others still have to run for election. They may well be more circumspect if they are worried about losing their own upcoming elections.
So, small, but possibly cumulative benefits, even if not on a grand stage. But may, by the accumulation of many such, make a difference after all.
Sadly, now and then, I also admitted that I don’t think it’ll be truly effective. We don’t (or don’t yet) have a leader that has the charisma and reach that captures the popular imagination, and far too many people will go along to get along. But if we do end up in a fascist government or Civil War, I want to be able to say I didn’t just sit on my couch and grouch.
The purpose of peaceful protest is to is to petition the government for redress of grievances. The power of protest is in numbers. The purpose of protest is to be seen, and give hope to like minded souls who will be inspired to turn out also. The people, united, can never be defeated.
I am going to go out if I can physically manage it – here in San Francisco, the rally will be in Dolores Park, which is accessible by street car (unless the line gets closed for the occasion). My current issue is that I am undergoing physical therapy for arthritis in my hip, and I’m worried that I may not be able to walk the distance from the closest I can get by public transit to at least the outskirts of the crowd; and then that I may not be able to get back from there to the streetcar stop. I may have to wait until the crowd clears (the rally is followed by a march, which I will not be attempting) and get a Lyft back home.
I didn’t do either of the first two bigger marches in the spring, because I had mixed feelings about how effective they might be, and how necessary. I have no such mixed feelings this time. People will be expecting a huge turnout in places like San Francisco, and if my poor hobbling presence can do any good at all, I’ll be there if I can.
That sometimes works, when those in government who have the power to address those grievances aren’t people like Donald Trump. But I’d put better odds on Betelgeuse going supernova within our lifetime, or physicists unifying general relativity and quantum mechanics within our lifetime, than the odds of Donald Trump being swayed in his beliefs by the protestations of a bunch of liberals.
You mention the unity of the people. It seems to me the reason we’re in our current situation is that the people are not united. Furthermore, that disunity is of a type that is only likely to be worsened, not improved, by protests.
I’m not a protester type, but I will be joining our local No Kings event on Saturday.
I have to do SOMEHING other than wallow in my helplessness. I live in a barely purple area of a very very red state. I frankly don’t dare canvass or even voice my opinion much, but there’s some safety in numbers, I hope.
Fake unity, where a minority of the population behave like tyrannical assholes and/or enthusiastically support the tyrannical assholery of their leaders while the rest of the population cowers silently to avoid “worsening disunity”, is not something to be embraced.
I don’t shame or scold anyone for not personally liking or wanting to participate in protests: there are plenty of other ways to support democracy. But protests exist to let people make their voices heard when they are outraged by injustices and misrule for which the ordinary political repair kit of voting, writing your representatives, town hall meetings, etc., isn’t working.
Protests also show spectators in other countries that the American people as a whole aren’t okay with what’s being done in our name. Protests strengthen the social bonds between the people who are out in the streets running a (hopefully very small, but) non-zero risk that some really bad retaliation might come their way for exercising their right to peaceful demonstration. Protests remind participants viscerally that we’re all in this together, and make people more willing to take on other citizenship acts such as running for local office and speaking up in other venues. Last but not least, protesting is the only way to ensure that the ability to protest doesn’t get eroded to the point of extinction.
We should throw this opportunity/responsibility away for the illusory dream of somehow preserving “unity” with MAGA delusionists? Haven’t you noticed yet that there is literally nothing non-MAGAs can do that will dislodge the MAGA delusionists from their “alternative facts”? Those are not the people we’re trying to reach.
Still less do we have any illusions about somehow being able to reach Donald Trump—I mean, are you fucking kidding me?!?
No fn way. I live in LA where we now have the National Guard and Marines deployed, neither of whom have the deescalating training/skills that PDs have (and despite their training, they often go off the rails). Not worth the chance of getting shot.
As the others said, I won’t be protesting. I don’t see how the current method of protesting makes the slightest effective difference. It’s not exerting any leverage against Trump/MAGA.