You have $15 to build an NBA All-Time Starting Lineup

I’ll take Hakeem, LeBron, Tim Duncan, MJ, and Clyde Frazier.

astorian and I have the same team. I’m starting with Jordan and LeBron, since I think that ultimately they are probably the best and second best players of all time. I also think Tim Duncan is the best power forward there ever was - certainly better than Barkley and better than Malone, too. So with those three I have the best player ever at three of five positions.

With those guys on hand, I have no real choice about my other two, but I’m OK with what I get. In particular, I want Olajuwon over any other choice on the list anyway. Olajuwon can effectively guard any other player on that list, and can score well enough against any other player on that list to command a double team. I’m not sure you can say that about any of the other centers.

Frazier is massively under-rated, probably because the best half of his career came while they weren’t tracking steals and all of his career came before the 3-pointer. Other guys on the list are better, but it won’t matter; he’ll provide a spark and good ball pressure and MJ/LeBron will wind up handling the ball half the time anyway.

Duncan isn’t really a power forward, so I’m starting him at center.

LeBron
KG
Duncan
Frazier
Jordan

Otherwise, I’ll sign on to every one of Jeffrey Lebowski’s posts (chicagowhitesox, you certainly cannot get away with calling a team with Dirk, Durant and the Big O even a good defensive team over the course of their careers within the parameters of this exercise), except I’d also take Shaq over Hakeem. I’d love to see who teams would be doubling off of to give help on Shaq, who was literally never successfully guarded one on one before his body fell apart.

Johnson
Jordan
Pippen
Duncan
[del]Olagi…[/del] [del]Olig…[/del] [del]Olayj…[/del] Hakeem.

Even Shaq admits he couldn’t guard Hakeem. Shaq was the best center in a weak era of centers.

Robinson, Duncan, Ewing, Mutombo, Mourning, Hakeem, Ben Wallace, Yao, Amare Stoudemire, Dwight Howard.

That’s weak? That’s four hall of famers so far and at least another two coming, and they all shared All-NBA honors with him at some point.

Did Hakeem ever make a public statement about whether or not he could guard Shaq?

Some dubious price allocations. Barkley worth more than Shaq? Malone as the most expensive PF?

I have two entries.

First:

Stockton - 2
Jordan - 5
Durant - 2
KG - 1
Hakeem - 1

Total: 11

Biggest mistake I see in games like this is people putting a bunch of ball dominant perimeter players together (e.g. Magic and Jordan, Jordan and LeBron). And you have to consider the ways guys score and their personalities. I chose Durant because he is best playing off ball and curling off screens for catch and shoots, so he can play with Jordan without causing problems. And he’s not a dominant personality, so he’ll defer. Could go with Pippen for cheap, but he can’t shoot threes for shit. Stockton has the ball a lot in the early offense but he’s always looking to set up, hardly takes any FGAs.

Hakeem and KG would work well personality wise because KG prefers to take a back seat if he can and he can stretch the floor and play in the high post while Hakeem works down low.

A potential weakness is Hakeem/Jordan both demanding low post space, but MJ’s fine playing face up most of the time (assume the younger version who could just blow past everyone). Playing against a team with Magic could present some matchup nightmares.

Inside oriented (monyeball cheap):

Stockton - 2
Wade - 1
Durant - 2
KG - 1
Shaq - 2

Total: 8

I’ll field all of the $2 players, and then bench all of the $1 players, to make it impossible for anyone else to put together a team.

Someone could still get the 5 $3 players.

Shaq ($2)
Duncan ($3)
Jordan ($5)
Stockton ($2)
Dr. J ($3)

Shaq is underpriced. Badly.

But with this team I’ve got a TEAM - strong in the paint and on the perimeter, I’ve got a general for my point guard, I’ve got defense, and I’ve got the best player ever.

Stockton $2
Jordan $5
Durant $2
Nowitski $2
Russell $4

I’m convinced this team is unbeatable. Russell anchors the defense, and since he is accustomed to being a role-player on offense, he stays out of the way for the scorers to work their magic. Nowitski stretches the floor and keeps the lane clear for Durant & Jordan. Stockton distributes the ball, runs the offense, and provides a kick-out option for Jordan.

Shaq seems like a good value, but having Shaq means your entire offense revolves around him. Plus the defense can employ the hack-a-Shaq. Forget that noise.

Well, that’s sort of how the exercise works! Consider, though, that I can make a lineup with a better all-around player at 4 positions (Magic, Wade, Bron, Duncan, Hakeem, for one).

It surprises me that so many people are of the opinion that a less talented player who seems to better fit a secondary role is a better option in this game. I’m prepared to argue that when you make a list of the best players of all-time, there’s a problem with the ones who seem like role players rather than stars. Bird and Duncan and Magic saw a lot of the ball when they played because that’s how good they were - that doesn’t mean they’re incapable of playing more of a supporting role. Imagine Larry Bird as an off-the-ball spot up shooter attacking closeouts!

I also don’t see LeBron and Jordan on the same roster as being any sort of problem at all, for instance. They’re each going to get a few fewer touches per game, but they’re going to be higher quality touches. For the same reason I don’t see why it has to be true that an offense with Shaq would revolve around Shaq. It’s not like he couldn’t play a super-Moses/DeAndre Jordan role shooting like 80% on lobs and putbacks; it just would be weird for him to have done that in the regular NBA.

I’m not sure any of the teams that we’ve assembled are unbeatable. Your team looks particularly vulnerable to mine (Frazier-Jordan-James-Duncan-Olajuwon). Nowitzki and Russell are going to get collectively dominated on the boards by the two seven footers in my frontcourt, and your team has no low-post scoring option that demands a double-team. LeBron can keep Durant at least more-or-less under control and I’m not convinced the opposite is true; Olajuwon can probably handle Russell. Again, though - good though Russell is on defense, I’m not sure he can contain Olajuwon without frequent double teaming - and I am certain that Nowitzki can’t do so against Duncan. So my version of MJ is definitely not getting double-teamed and is frequently left alone - ditto Frazier* and even LeBron.

*Frazier vs. Stockton, I think, is an argument that can’t be settled, since so many of the useful statistics we have to compare players only started being used at all halfway through Clyde’s career. But it’s certainly close enough that the advantages my team has in size, low-post power give it an edge (in my opinion, obviously).

PG: Clyde
SG: Jordan
SF: Bird
PF: Duncan
CT: Olajuwan (easily the best value on this list, especially defensively.)

Almost went with Pippen in the SF spot, but wanted a better trash talker. :wink:

Fashion Sense: yet another reason to make sure you have Clyde on your team

Duncan and Olajuwon are almost the same player. Nowitski would be good enough on defense since Russell is there to help him out. On offense, my team is far better at shooting outside than yours. I would not want to depend on LBJ to be my only outside scoring threat – far too streaky. Who on your team is going to cover Dirk? Duncan?

!!

Duncan and The Dream the same player???
Hakeem was a whirling dervish, with footwork and ball fakes never seen before him at the 5.
Duncan?is the player that should have the nickname Tbe Big Fundamental (with apologies to the Big Aristotle). I would wager that he has scored more points off of 12-15 foot bank shots than any player ever.

Well yeah, but concerning strengths and weaknesses, there is a big overlap between Hakeem and Duncan, that’s what I’m saying. Both great post players, rebounders, above average defenders, medium range jump-shooters.

One important difference for this conversation is that I think defensively Hakeem could handle Dirk out to the three point line, which I don’t think you’d try with Duncan. He moved really well. Actually, in terms of who historically could be a plus matchup against Dirk, despite Dirk being basically unguardable by design, Hakeem seems pretty close to the top of the list.