Yup.
I come from a not terribly well-off family, and most of my closest friends make less money than I do. If I get asked out to dinner, I don’t immediately assume it’s free food. My default’s more like a dinner between colleagues - whoever invites; “hey let’s go there, it’s great food!” (and everybody pays their share of the bill). When I ask people out to dinner and I’ll pay, I will make it clear: something like “I’ll pay” up front is quite clear enough. It’s a cultural thing.
If some kind of club were meeting at my house, not at all. If it were a situation where my wife and I cooked dinner and were playing host, and we all sat down to eat and converse together, and then at the and you offered me money as if my wife and I were some sort of innkeepers and you had no reason for showing up other than the grub, then yes, dear, I would be Mortally Offended and may even drop my monocle.
I’ve been guilty of offering money a few times when others were “hosting”. Personally, I never meant it as any type of insult or assumption. If anything, I do it out of worry for offending the hosting parties. I mean, how uncomfortable would it be if I didn’t offer to pay when they thought I would. Obviously, if it were my birthday and somebody asked me out to eat, I would assume they were going to pay. But if I were going with a friend’s family - and even if one person was paying for the families mean - I would feel obligated to at least offer.
I wouldn’t think anything of it. They’re just trying to be nice by offering.
FWIW, it ought to be mentioned that in China and presumably Taiwan it is absolutely the norm that one person (not always the person inviting, but usually) pays. It’d be completely normal for me to ask a group of six people out to dinner and pay for it. But of course, I’d know they’d take me out in return. And yeah, sometimes people do come to blows over who gets the honor of footing the bill. Part of it is ego. Part of it is the fact that you can’t eat in a Chinese restaurant alone. Part of it is that people are a little more comfortable having social obligations towards each other.
It’s also hardwired in my DNA to offer to pay my share, even when I know for sure nobody expects me to pay. It’s always embarrassing for everyone, but I can’t just sit there with my hands in my pockets when the bill comes without feeling very uncomfortable.
To answer your direct question: No.
However, how often when invited over to someone’s house do you
a) offer to bring a salad or dessert or somehow help with the meal
b) bring a bottle of wine or flowers or beer (unasked for)
I have colleagues come to china for their first trip ever to help me with my customers. for those that I like and are cool with a “real” china experience and 3 kids running around get an invitation to come over for dinner. I tell 'em ahead of time that we don’t expect anything but the pleasure of their company. From a dozen different countries, I don’t think anyone has ever just showed up without bringing something. Often they are a parent and they bring something for the kids, which is greatly appreciated by all because of its thoughtfulness. That’s just pretty normal behavior.
Adding to the chorus, with an invitation to go eat at a restaurant with friends there is a very weak concept of a “host” in my social circle. At best, they can be considered the organizer, or glue that holds the event together. There is no assumed implication that they will pay, and typically everyone there will pay for their own food (the check does a lap of the table, everyone puts in the appropriate cash or card).
The only exception to this is close family, where typically someone will take the tab. My grandmother-in-law for example typically does this, and it appears to be expected. I don’t see my parents on a regular basis since they live in a different country, but I think typically one person pays (and the next time a different person will pay).
If invited to someones home I think the general idea is to offer to bring something, and then follow through on the response (maybe bringing a bottle of wine or something if they didn’t need anything). At least, that is what I do, and so far I have not been shunned from society!
I have the worse problem. When we go out with the stated intent of splitting the bill my brother will grab the check and insist on paying, saying “You can catch it the next time”. I always tell him, “I hate this. You always want to play the big shot, so you’ll keep grabbing the check until I stop going to dinner with you.” Eventually I stopped going to dinner with him.
Yeah, the worst is having a fun happy evening and then the last step is people nattering over the check, pulling out cell phones with tip calculators, not having enough cash…ugh.
A $50 bill would fine, but the guy pulled 50 singles out of his sweatsock. Koxinga keeping his monocle in was quite remarkable given the situation.
OP and St. Anger need to trade friends.
I tend to pick up the check for most of my friends, no matter who did the inviting, unless it is specifically stated ahead of time that we will be splitting the check.
From time to time they will do the ‘oh, no, you shouldn’t’ dance and make it clear at the table that they want to pay their share, and I won’t argue past two rounds, as that is rude, and hey- I understand wanting to pay your share.
Most of my crowd is currently low on funds with the recession, so they don’t mind, but this was a regular thing even before.
I don’t tend to get to spend a lot of time in social circumstances these days, so I am just trying to be friendly.
Same here, and to avoid all the nattering. “I’ll put it on my card, just give me what you think is reasonable…Is everyone happy? Ok, all set.” All the dealings just bring down a fun time.
I would be hard pressed to be offended.
And the nature of invitations vary, so there is often some leeway for error
For example, last night, we had agreed to meet another couple at a local pub for dinner. It was along the lines of “Hey, we should all go out sometime!” “Great idea, how’s Wednesday night?” “Perfect!” It was less “invitation” and more “friends planning an activity.” We each paid for our own meals.
If it had been: “FianceePhone and I would like to take you two to dinner. Our treat!” then I’d find it odd that they offered to pay their half, but I still wouldn’t be offended since no insult was intended.
I’ve never understood an invitation to join someone at a restaurant as a ticket for a free meal.
Ah, see? That’s the difference. “Joining” /= “Hosted”.
“We’re thinking of trying Ye Fancy Restaurant & Bistro, it’s got great reviews. Wanna come?”
is not at all the same as:
“We would like to treat you to dinner at Ye Fancy Restaurant & Bistro.”
If you invite a couple and the one spouse relays the message to the other spouse ambiguously like: “Oh, honey. I’ve made plans with the Cellphones for dinner Friday.” there may be one person at the table who doesn’t quite know if it’s a joining-friends thing or a gift-of-dinner thing.
Where do you put, “Let’s go to the Bistro”? Because that’s the standard around here. And people will respond with “I’m a little low on funds right now.” You see, until we make it clear that we’re going to pay, it is rude to assume it. And it’s safer.
The thing is, I’ve payed for a lot of my friends, but I’ve also dumped friends who thought I would pay for them.
Reading the OP I see that part of the question what about the guy not saying thank you. Yeah, he screwed up big time there. For the record, saying thank you is still acceptable.
A couple of people have suggested the host saying things like " That’s OK, you can get it next time." Please don’t do this. If you want to put a debt on yourguests then take the wad of cash now and settle things. If I offer to pay my share on our meal (and I will) and you refuse the offer then we are square at that point. Unless we are really good buddies I’m not going to be comfortable promising another dinner to you where I will pay.
No, it would be crass. That is why you typically show up to someone elses home with a bottle of wine or some other gift.
Your “trying to be friendly” relegates your friends to the position of “freeloader”, “charity case” or “dependent”. At best it makes you look like you are trying to desperately ingratiate yourself to them and at worse it makes you look like you are an asshole trying to be the “big shot”.
If your friends have any pride, I would not be surprised that you would find yourself in less social circumstances with them as time went on.
There’s no nattering. The bill for 5 is $500. Tip is $100. Everyone owes $600 / 5 = $120. Oh you don’t have cash? Well just put your card down. Don’t have your card? Well…you owe me until we get to the ATM down the street. That’s bullshit that people think they can go out in with a group and people will just cover their cheapness.
Or as I like to say “I normally don’t put a price on friendship…and yet here we are…”
But you had the lobster and I had a side salad. And you had that expensive bottle of wine and I had water.
Dividing the bill evenly isn’t always fair, but on the other hand people need to be able to add up what they had and calculate tax and tip without a half-hour negotiation.
Is that not pretty much what my first example is? It’s and example of people making plans for an activity. “Join us/let’s go/we’re going, come too” are all pretty much just “making plans to do some activity.” I would never assume anyone is paying for me, unless the invitation is explicit.