OK - this isn’t so much about the war; it’s more about being paid for what you do.
I got a chance to talk to my buddy over in Iraq today. Well, over AIM at least - they stopped the whole VoIP thing about a month into his tour. Considering I hadn’t heard from him for a month, I was relieved. Until he dropped a nice little item.
I say this endearingly - the asshole is stupid!
He says he wants to go back to Iraq next October, a few months after his tour is done - as a contractor. He said he could probably get an easy job for $150k a year. (Of course, I’m not going to just let my - again, said endearingly - dumbass friend go back, especially after recent incidents.)
Not to disparage the contractors there, but, shit! He’s in a lot of danger, but he sure isn’t getting paid proportionally. Makes me feel particularly bad for the marines and all the other guys getting shot at and only getting paid decently.
We talked a little more, then he had to head off. He’s got convoy duty for the next six days, and who knows, he very well may be guarding a truck being driven by a guy with a higher salary than him. :smack:
And yet wierdly, soldiers are in fact more expensive than contractors due to recruiting , training and retaining costs. Almost everything is cheaper to do by contractor.
I still do not have ANY replies to my applications.
I saw a very interesting interview on NOW about 2 months ago.
Bill Moyers was interviewing a young man that had been a law student in DC when the Pentagon was hit.
The events of 9/11 moved him so much that he enlisted and ended up in Iraq.
One of his jobs included protecting civilian contractors in truck convoys.
He confessed that he found it disheartening that the driver was being paid more than 3 times what he was.
And that the contractors always made a point of letting him know the pay differential.
He also thought that guarding an unarmed civilian who was not well trained in defensive maneuvers made his job more difficult.
However, what he found most discouraging was the fact that the drivers could quit any time they felt like it.
After one especially nasty engagement, the contractor looked at him and said: “I’m on the next flight outta here.”
He, of course, was stuck.
Re: Pay. When I was a kid, my mom volunteered at Navy relief. She and others would collect items such as food and toys to help out needy Navy families.
Last year I read a very informative article about contractors on the battlefield, discussing whether we have too many, too few, or just the right number. In the article, a retired Army officer was quoted talking about all the advantages of the use of contractors (highly technical expertise, don’t have to keep them on the payroll when we’re not in war, etc), and one serious drawback as compared to soldiers: “We can’t shoot them if they don’t do what they’re told.”
Did you know that they [previous to making the personnel PAY for the Tri-care ‘HMO’] the actual monetary income of my husband was 27K$, but he was informed that if asked on forms that his income was 32k$ per year “because the dependant medical care” was considered to be worth 5K$. Yups, the same facility that hired a civillian doctor every patient called “Dr Death” because at one time he had 22 malpractice suits against him [and was not so coincedentally the same asshat who rescribed pennicillin for me despite the screaming hot pink allergy folder with pennicillin written across the front in 2 inch tall letters]
As a civillian nuke worker, I was making $16US per hour, and a $65 UNTAXED per diem for doing essentially the same type of job my first navy husband did [though I did it at civillian reactors and not on a submarine] and he and his buddies figured out one time that their hourly income was something like 86 cents per hour, plus room and board [aboard the sub]
In general military pay is just high enough to disqualify people for many aid programs yet not enough to actually support a family with more than one or 2 children, and in general under E3 rank the pay is not really adequate to support more than the married couple itself. You are required to sign paperwork accepting substandard housing [stuff that welfare recipients would not be housed in according to civillian agencies. Up until the reduction in personnel in Oceana Naval Air Station, they had housing known as the Cockroach Motel. I walked in to visit friends, and there was a roach population large enough to be seen in broad daylight [Orkin, IIRC, said at one time that for every roach you see in a room, there are like 300 hiding in the colony behind the walls/under the floors.]
Yups. All this luxurious living, and the possibility of death. And we get to listen to people saying how good the military has it, housing, medical care, benefits.
Excuse me while I go and send a few christmas care packages to my friends and family currently deployed to war zones where they are too busy opressing people to spend time with loved ones.
Well, not that it matters w/r/t defensive manoeuvres, but I’ve been informed that civilians are not allowed to carry weapons in Iraq, even if they want to. While that certainly makes sense, since they would be more likely to harm ppl on our own side and, more importantly, Iraqi civilians, I’m sure they are just as frustrated and angry at their own (semi-forced) helplessness as the shooty guys guarding them
Very unlikely, unless he is going to oversee a huge construction project, such as the new embassy. Construction salaries and other blue-collar jobs simply don’t pay that much, even in Iraq. The standard over there now is to pay workers the equivalent of 16 hours pay for 8 hours of work, in other words about double the going rate in the states, which is about $80K gross. Until he’s been over there for a year, he will pay taxes at about 25%, so he’ll be making about $60K net. Hardly worth the risk.
Yes, and they’re public record. These figures do not take into account special pay like housing or subsistence allowances that vary by family size and location or pay like incentive or flight pay that depend on having a specific skill or status (like flight status or being in a hazardous-duty location). Special pay and allowances are not taxed, but base pay is subject to federal and state withholding, depending on which state the service member declares as their home of record. Many people I served with declared Florida as their home state because they had no withholding or income tax; they got more money every year than people from, say, Pennsylvania did because PA has state and local taxes out the butt.
For an example, Airman is an E-4. When he is active duty, his base pay is $1,726.80, which is taxed. But he gets another $900 or so each month in housing and subsistence allowances and flight pay. A servicemember not entitled to housing and subsistence allowances or other special pay would only make the $1726.80.
As far as healthcare goes, we’re lucky because we live close to a military clinic. Those visits are free (to us, anyway). However, when he is not on active duty, we’re on our own for healthcare. There is currently a provision for year-round Tricare for reservists and Guardsmen, but its implementation is currently under review and may very well sunset before all eligible get to take advantage of it, if it hasn’t already. :mad:
But you’re drawing a pensionfor life, right? I think present-value of future payments needs to be counted in an apples-to-apples comparison of military and contractors.
Not sure how long Mr. Moto was in in toto, but in order to draw a pension, you have to be in for (IIRC) 15 years for partial pension, 20 for full pension. However, ex-military generally get VA healthcare (which generally has to be paid for either by insurance or by the vet himself, so it’s not that much of a bargain), GI Bill, a VA-guaranteed mortgage, and whatever bennies are offered by the state.
As another example, I am a Navy veteran. I’ve used my VA healthcare benefit, and I currently receive significant state grant aid for school. I’ve also received college credit for my basic training (5 credits of exercise science) and technical training (7 credits of physics). When Airman and I get ready to buy a house, we can use my VA mortgage benefit to make the terms easier. Also, PA (where we live), I’d get veteran’s preference for state as well as for federal civil-service jobs, so I not only stand a better chance of getting the job in the first place, but I’d get credit towards retirement (and, in the case of federal employment, a grade increase) that another, non-veteran, jobholder wouldn’t get.
Even in the absence of a pension, it’s still a pretty sweet deal.
An E1 salary would be hard to live on if you are married. When I joined in 1989 I think an E1 under 6 months made something like $600 a month. Sounds like crap(and it is) but consider you are in training for your first months in with very few expenses and not a lot of time to spend your money. If you are single you don’t have much of a problem. I was not married at the time so I can’t tell you how that was. Most under the rank of E4 are not married. Those that are can have some problems. I remember being a young E3-E4 in Germany. I had enough money for my needs (car, beer). I didn’t save much but I didn’t suffer. Now I am in the O portion of that pay scale and I am doing much better. Not getting rich but my families needs are being met.
From all accounts I have heard it used to be much worse. The pay got a lot better during the Reagan years. Since then there have been cost of living raises. Base housing and allowances for off-base housing are much better now too. The quality of housing and medical care vary from base to base. Sometimes it sucks, sometimes its pretty good.
Those getting shot at are not getting enough. You can’t put a pricetag on that. However, its not quite as bad as it seems sometimes.
Robyn look long and hard at the VA mortgage. The rates are usually higher than what you can get on your own. It does have several advantages. Little or no money down, which may not be possible for you depending on your financial status. Most importantly is the protection against defaulting on the loan. That protection is why you pay a higher percentage rate than you might on your own.
It changes from state to state. When I tried for a job in NJ they only give vet preference to those serving in a combat zone. Since I spent Desert Storm in Germany I wasn’t considered a vet. I am able to into my pension system for the four years of active duty I had. So I pay in some extra each week for ten years and I am able to retire four years early.
For the record, so I don’t confuse anyone. I used to be active duty, I joined the guard and I am currently activated in a non-combat area. I will not go into further details.
I wish you had told me that yesterday! 