Someone is not following company policy? OK, keep quiet. Breaking into the Capitol, and possibly trying to harm members of Congress? That’s not being a rat, that’s being a patriot.
I would do it without a second thought. Nobody close to me would do this but if it were someone I didn’t want to report, let’s say my son, then I would persuade him to turn himself in, because if his photo is out there, someone else will report him.
I would turn them in so fast their heads would spin.
I think I’d probably split the difference. I likely wouldn’t rat someone out that I just saw milling about in a crowd carrying a sign. Some of those deluded idiots were probably just deluded idiots who genuinely didn’t mean any harm. They just wanted to holler and be seen defending their precious bodily fluids from the dire oppression of Democracy by waving signs and milling about in a crowd of plague-spreading yahoos.
I probably would turn in anyone I saw rushing barricades, climbing scaffolding, clashing with cops or “strolling” through the Capitol building. Those are the troublemakers and they deserve at least a visit from the FBI to explain themselves.
The idea that any of the people there didn’t mean any harm doesn’t fly with me. The only reason to attend was at Trump’s behest about the election being stolen and them needing to do something about it. These are true believers who still support him after his previous attempts to override the election, who still think he won, who still don’t see any moral problem with supporting him or thwarting democracy.
This was not some protest. It was a planned indirection, who Trump told to go mount an insurrection and try to push through barriers, and they did.
The only possible innocent people would be those who left once they saw the crowds trying to push their way in.
Not wanting to be a “rat” can be understandable in some circumstances, but not in these. Not only would I turn in anyone I knew to be a participant in a New York minute, but if you were holding back reporting someone, and I knew that, then I would turn you in too as an accessory.
I would and in fact I already have. I’m sure I’m not the only one.
It does not matter if I saw them inside or outside, or even just driving as car to get to the event.
They get identified - for those who think otherwise it is worth remembering that you do not have the full picture - the criminals don’t even have to go into the house, prime example is Trump himself, he wasn’t even there but without doubt there is a case to answer.
Even those not going in are capable of encouraging through social media posts, providing money, offering organising skills. People who might seem harmless or deluded or misled can still have a dangerous effect.
Your one or two second clip outside the Capitol building is just a tiny snapshot that could well become on namless unidentified face inside it and ultimately its for the investigators and perhaps the courts to actually decide levels of culpability, it isn’t for those us who can identify individuals to filter that information simply because we do not have full access - and identified individuals might well have previous history of offences that need to be explored.
I’ve watched the developments in the US from my side of the pond and I have to say that in my position as “detached spectator”, I would like to think I’d do the right thing.
Are you (collectively) drawing a distinction between people who were inside the building and those outside protesting/demonstrating? I think I’d feel morally obliged to report anyone I recognised inside the building, or at least say that it looked like someone I knew but couldn’t be 100% sure. Those outside though, if they weren’t engaged in criminal activity, then isn’t that their right to protest?
That is one of the problems (another one!) with those people: they are so sure they are right and all their actions justified that they cannot imagine that what they are doing is illegal or that it could have adverse consequences for them. I see many a surprise coming soon to an ignorant near you*.
* Generic "you", of course, has nothing to do with Gatopescado or any other person in particular. Like in "a movie theatre near you".Weird but related scenario to the OP. A friend of an associate (so I wouldn’t bet on veracity here) said they were feeling conflicted. They saw a co-worker on the TV footage at the rally. No word if they went inside, but confirmed in their head that it was their co-worker. The co-worker had called in sick with possible COVID symptoms, but was untested. Their employer has a relaxed attendance policy during the pandemic, so no issue. So the once removed friend is wondering if they should rat out their coworker to HR - not for rioting (that’s up to the FBI/Capitol Police), but for calling in sick to go to a political rally.
Of course, maybe they were sick, even with COVID, but just wanted to go to the rally anyway. It wouldn’t be out of character for hardcore Trumpys!
hell to the yes.
I think thats what these people didn’t consider. There are 81 million Biden voters, thats 1/4 of the entire nations population. Every one of these people has friends, family, coworkers, acquaintances, etc. who are opposed to treason. Even a significant fraction of republican voters say they were opposed to this act.
If the participant was inside the building or obviously willfully damaging property or climbing the building then no question in my mind yes to reporting them but if this was someone outside just observing then I’d say no. And I wonder how easy one would be able to tell the difference for those outside.
I’d throw them under the bus, drive over them, back up, then do it again.
Same answer I would give if asked if I would ID people at Occupy Walll Street…
Depend on whether I thought they’d get a fair trial/. Depend on whether the prospective punishment would fit the crime. Depend on whether I thought they were basically malicious people likely to reoffend.
These were crimes with no intended victims, by people caught up in the moment. I see no need for a witch-hunt.
I’ve been in protests. If they turned ugly, would I be personally responsible for any consequent harm?
Many good people on both sides?
Would do it in a heartbeat. Whether they were there to cause trouble or not, I’d ID them best I could and let the FBI sort it out.
The goal was to overthrow the government and hang duly elected members of Congress. What the fuck more do you need-pointy hats and vroom brooms?
TF? Are you talking about the peaceful protests and Zuccotti Park encampment of the OWS movement? Those were not illegal:
When some OWS protestors did break the law, they did in fact get arrested.
The OP specifically asked about turning in individuals that the FBI is seeking for possible indictment on criminal charges after a violent insurrection attempt to invalidate the federal certification of a Presidential election, in which the lawbreakers overwhelmed the heavily outnumbered LEOs. To compare that to a group of protestors lawfully occupying private property for an extended period is apples and oranges.
Including the spreading of feces in the Capitol building and the calls to hang the legislators? You think demanding the arrest of people who violently broke into a federal building, fought with and injured police, and at least in some cases are credibly suspected of intending far worse violence, qualifies as a “witch hunt”?
Fucking hell, dude. I’m as bleeding-heart-liberal and pro-right-of-public-assembly as they come, but if some BLM or anti-ICE or Women’s March or whatever demonstrator actually breaks a law, I have no problem whatsoever with them being arrested for it, no matter how “caught up in the moment” they were.
I don’t take it upon myself to pre-judge whether they should be allowed to get away with their lawbreaking on the basis of what I speculate about their “intended victims” or whether they’re “basically malicious people”.
I guess that just makes me more pro-law-and-order than the average Republican these days.
Almost seems like something you’d want to leave up to the professionals…