"You shook my hand -- and you looked me square in the eye." Asshole Army Ad.

The BBQ Pit
21

[QUOTE=DMark]

I donno…maybe I’m weird. I actually had a relationship with my father that was based on something more than macho posing.

Is this ad supposed to make parents want to ship their kids off to war so they can return as polite. robot strangers?
[/QUOTE]

You’re weird in that you get so outraged at some dumb recruiting ad. Like all advertising, the Army ads just sends a positive message through the use of imagery and anecdotes. In this case the message is “you will learn discipline and confidence in the Army”. Is this an innacurate message? Other messages military ads send include “you will be provided opportunities for travel and adventure you wont find elsewhere” or “if you really think your hard core, try being a Royal Marine”. Other messages like “you might be horribly maimed” while accurate, are not productive.

The rest is just you projecting your left wing values onto the ad as a representation of something you find distasteful. I think its being a little hypersensitive.

22

[QUOTE=Jonathan Chance]
I’m relatively certain drinking Budweiser won’t make supermodels suck my weenie, either. I don’t see you complaining about that.
[/QUOTE]

I’ll complain about it. I’m damn mad that your drinking Bud doesn’t get supermodels to suck your weenie. Damn Budweiser. Damn supermodels.

23

[QUOTE=Ice Wolf]
If your ads are using real actors, be grateful. If they start to look like a computer game – worry.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, the US armed forces has had those too. The National Guard has had cheesy CGI guardsmen doing dramatic National Guard stuff (complete with an artillery shell marked “Let’s Roll”). The Marines used to have a commerical that, while live action with cheesy special effects, was basically a guy going through a gauntlet straight out of a fantasy video game before transforming at the end into a Marine in dress uniform (ISTR a knight in full plate being involved at some point, although I can’t remember if it was our hero, or someone he had to fight).

Anyway, I have to agree with the general sentiment of the OP. If you treat your father with the same formalized respect due to a totally stranger upon your introduction, and Dad remarks on the improvement, there’s something fucked up about your relationship right there. It kinda gives me the gibblies. I also question to the wisdom of appealing to the “has serious daddy-issues” demographic". :wink:

In fact, I don’t like any pro-military stuff that suggests the service a cure-all for personal issues. A chance to serve your country? Absolutely. A chance to learn a marketable skill? Sure. Access to financial benefits? Yep. Adventure? Well, maybe, “tedium interpread with terror” sounds more likely, but at the least its acceptable hyperboyle. A place to work out your daddy issues? Sorry, not their job, go find a therapist. To be fair, most military ads I’ve seen don’t go that route. When I hear that sentiment, it’s more often from private citizens extolling the self-help properties of the armed forces.

24

Well, Otto, I appreciate the support. Let me know if they get back to you on that.

25

[QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory]
When you have to join the service just to be able to do it. As I can imagine the Ad implies, you’re not a man until you join the Army, and then go home to shake dads hand and look him in the eye, just to make him proud. Can it not be done without?
[/QUOTE]

No, the ad implies that he became a man in the Army, not that you have to join the Army to become a man. There’s a big difference between the two. Yes, it can be done without the Army. It can also be done within the Army.

There’s nothing unreasonable about the commercial. A lot of people will tell you that the military is the best thing they ever did (like me). Others will say it’s the worst thing they ever did. Do you really expect the Army to advertise using descriptions of people that hated it? That would be like Apple advertisements saying “Only 5% of the people in the world use our computers and they have a reputation for being smug and elitist”. You can see how that would not be a good advertising ploy. No, they’ll use positive examples, and this is one of the potential positive outcomes of joining the service.

26

[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF]
That would be like Apple advertisements saying “Only 5% of the people in the world use our computers and they have a reputation for being smug and elitist”. You can see how that would not be a good advertising ploy. No, they’ll use positive examples, and this is one of the potential positive outcomes of joining the service.
[/QUOTE]

True, but the ‘positive example’ here is equivalent to an Apple ad saying "I bought an Apple and it never once spontaneously combusted.’ Like “you shook my hand,” it’s a pretty underwhelming achievement. A dog that shakes my hand and looks me in the eye isn’t all that impressive. What happened to those old “Be all that you can be” ads?

27

I think all y’all got it wrong.

The ad is appealing to the parents. It’s an attempt to make parents be okay with the military so they won’t fight them being in their kid’s high schools and having access to their kid’s personal data. Isn’t there some survey out there showing parents increasingly (or overwhelmingly, I forget) unwilling or wary of their kids going into the military in light of Iraq?

Never mind the war, dad! Let the Army calm your fears and turn your slacker no-good disrespectful lazy ass son into a man you can be proud of!

This goes in line with the other ad with the son laying out his case to his mom about this great opportunity he’s gotten, and only at the end reveals it’s the Army.

Or the other ad about the National Guard with the son allaying the father’s fears that it’s only the Guard and he’ll train close to home :dubious: .

28

I think this is the least irritating of the current recruitment commercials. What irritates me are the ones where the kids say “hey mom! I found someone to pay for my college! So I can be an engineer”

Conveniently leaving out the whole “country currently at war and needing soldiers to go get blown up by roadside bombs angle”

It bothers me that the Army at least, markets itself almost solely as a scholarship program. how about a disclaimer at the end like with prescriptions … there’s a 60% chance you’ll be sent to war in a foreign country within two years…and whatever percentage of that will come home in a body bag.

BUT GET THAT COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIP BABY!

29

[QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory]
I like the recent one for the Air Force, where the kid is strolling down the streat, and casually helps the cop with his laptop that crashed… and the miracle cure is to press F8 on bootup to get into Safe Mode. Works evertime! Then the scene switches to the kid in a fast paced computer enviroment on a jumbo jet. “We’ve been waiting for you.”

Laugh out fucking loud (deserved the entire spelling), give me a fucking break. I was getting into safe mode in the fucking 8th grade. Where’s my jumbo jet, damnit? Who’s writing these stupid commericals? Probably the kid they took in because he knew how to get into safe mode to fix their MS Movie Maker software.
[/QUOTE]

To be fair, I think the point of this one might not be just that the kid knows to push F8, but that he has the confidence to go help a police officer. That would be in line with the theme of most military ads that seem to be out there. Confidence in dealing with authority, because you will know your own self worth and not be intimidated.

[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF]
No, the ad implies that he became a man in the Army, not that you have to join the Army to become a man. There’s a big difference between the two. Yes, it can be done without the Army. It can also be done within the Army.

[/QUOTE]

True, but there seems to be an implication (and a general feeling held by some) that the Army is an appropriate tool for relationship fixing. Indeed, for some it may be the case, but to advertise that angle pretty much says, “relationship problems with your father/son? Go away to the Army (or encourage/send your child there) and when all is done everything will be fixed!” which, I can say, is probably false in most cases. As Menocchio says:

[QUOTE=Menocchio]

Anyway, I have to agree with the general sentiment of the OP. If you treat your father with the same formalized respect due to a totally stranger upon your introduction, and Dad remarks on the improvement, there’s something fucked up about your relationship right there. It kinda gives me the gibblies.

In fact, I don’t like any pro-military stuff that suggests the service a cure-all for personal issues. A chance to serve your country? Absolutely. A chance to learn a marketable skill? Sure. Access to financial benefits? Yep. Adventure? Well, maybe, “tedium interpread with terror” sounds more likely, but at the least its acceptable hyperboyle. A place to work out your daddy issues? Sorry, not their job, go find a therapist. To be fair, most military ads I’ve seen don’t go that route. When I hear that sentiment, it’s more often from private citizens extolling the self-help properties of the armed forces.
[/QUOTE]

But, as far as a direct response to the OP, I’m not that bothered by the polite, formalized, ritualized interaction that is viewed as an improvement. I find it a little strange (it basically implies that they’ve never had a respectful, satisfying interaction before), but it doesn’t get my dander up.

30

[QUOTE=tiny ham]
It bothers me that the Army at least, markets itself almost solely as a scholarship program. how about a disclaimer at the end like with prescriptions … there’s a 60% chance you’ll be sent to war in a foreign country within two years…and whatever percentage of that will come home in a body bag.
[/QUOTE]

You know, I’m pretty anti-war in general. But I can’t fault the military for not shouting this part from the rooftops. I think that most of the people who join the Armed Forces today know that there’s significant risk involved. Maybe that wasn’t the case five years ago, when I was graduating high school, but it certainly is today. There may be people for whom the benefits of enlisting (scholarships, job training, finding direction, serving their country) outweigh the risks of combat.

Granted, there might also be people who don’t understand the risks. However, I think that those individuals are affected more by a sense of invincibility than by ignorance of the fact that, hey, our country’s at war. Putting a disclaimer like that in ads would be pointless. At best, it would be pandering to individuals like me, who really think that the government shouldn’t have gone in there in the first place. (Though, personally, I figure, we’re in there now; if we’ve gotta do it, let’s do it right).

31

[QUOTE=CynicalGabe]
What kind of dumbass delinquent was this kid before that shaking your dad’s hand is something to be proud of?
[/QUOTE]
One that finally got what he needed to straighten him out and make him a man? The military *does * that. And, you know what, more often than not a screwed-up, goalless kid *knows * he needs straightening out. The parents often can’t do it, since part of being screwed up is tuning out what they say, while remaining receptive to others.

The ad appeals to both the screwed-up kid and his parents. Yes, there’s a chance he’ll get killed, and theres’ no need to say that, but there’s a much greater chance that he’ll become a man. I don’t see the objection.

(Disclaimer: None of the above applies to non-screwed-up kids who join.)

32

[QUOTE=Jonathan Chance]
Christ on a pogo stick, it’s marketing!

I’m relatively certain drinking Budweiser won’t make supermodels suck my weenie, either. I don’t see you complaining about that.

The ad is aimed at young men who want to earn the respect of their fathers and potentially see the army as a means of dealing with that insecurity. And dealing with insecurity is what advertising does.
[/QUOTE]

BINGO

33

[QUOTE=Jonathan Chance]
I’m relatively certain drinking Budweiser won’t make supermodels suck my weenie, either.
[/QUOTE]

Wuh…buh…? Y’mean…? Awww man…

34

I also hate that ad. It makes me think the army is for people incredibly fucking fucked up relationships with their parents.

I believe there is another one with the quote “It’s time for me to be the man.” Yecch.

35

[QUOTE=Ice Wolf]
If your ads are using real actors, be grateful. If they start to look like a computer game – worry.
[/QUOTE]

Maybe in New Zealand the army recruiting ads look like computer games, but here in the US, the army actually uses a computer game as a recruiting tool.

And as for the one about the kid telling the cop to press F8 to get into safe mode, I assumed that the cop was his father. And another thing, getting into safe mode in and of itself doesn’t fix whatever problem the computer had.

36

[QUOTE=Menocchio]
The Marines used to have a commerical that, while live action with cheesy special effects, was basically a guy going through a gauntlet straight out of a fantasy video game before transforming at the end into a Marine in dress uniform (ISTR a knight in full plate being involved at some point, although I can’t remember if it was our hero, or someone he had to fight).
[/QUOTE]

There were several such ads. One involved a man in civilian dress working his way through a maze filled with traps and making his saving throw over and over, then zapping into a uniform at the end; another involved a bunch of medieval characters (including an armored mounted knight) going at it on a giant chessboard. The knight clobbers two or three enemy pieces and works his way to the enemy king, who surrenders, and the knight’s broadsword and armor transform into a Mameluke and dress uniform. The whole thing was, I thought, a direct lift from the old video-game Battlechess. Kinda nifty, though.

37

[QUOTE=niblet_head]
I think all y’all got it wrong.

The ad is appealing to the parents. It’s an attempt to make parents be okay with the military so they won’t fight them being in their kid’s high schools and having access to their kid’s personal data. Isn’t there some survey out there showing parents increasingly (or overwhelmingly, I forget) unwilling or wary of their kids going into the military in light of Iraq?

Never mind the war, dad! Let the Army calm your fears and turn your slacker no-good disrespectful lazy ass son into a man you can be proud of!

[/QUOTE]

Yup. Although the sort of parent who would be swayable by the virtues of firm shake and eye gaze are probably pretty military-positive already.

38

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
One that finally got what he needed to straighten him out and make him a man? The military *does * that. And, you know what, more often than not a screwed-up, goalless kid *knows * he needs straightening out. The parents often can’t do it, since part of being screwed up is tuning out what they say, while remaining receptive to others.

The ad appeals to both the screwed-up kid and his parents. Yes, there’s a chance he’ll get killed, and theres’ no need to say that, but there’s a much greater chance that he’ll become a man. I don’t see the objection.

(Disclaimer: None of the above applies to non-screwed-up kids who join.)
[/QUOTE]

Ya know, for a leftie, pinko, scumbag, you make a damn good point! Too bad more people don’t realize the truth of what you’re saying.

:slight_smile:

39

[QUOTE=Dewey Finn]
Maybe in New Zealand the army recruiting ads look like computer games, but here in the US, the army actually uses a computer game as a recruiting tool.

And as for the one about the kid telling the cop to press F8 to get into safe mode, I assumed that the cop was his father. And another thing, getting into safe mode in and of itself doesn’t fix whatever problem the computer had.
[/QUOTE]

FWIW, that fucking game is hard to the point of being a major pain in the ass. You do get to shoot your drill instructor though.

40

It’s interesting to contrast the commercial discussed in the OP with one of the other Army recruiting ads.

The one we’ve been discussing here is obviously supoposed to portray some beefy, mid-western farm family, real salt-of-the-earth Americans. And, for this family, the Army apparently serves as a way for the kid to become a man in the eyes of his father.

But of course, we all know that black kids don’t have fathers. :rolleyes:

So the commercial the Army ran at the same time portrayed a black kid talking to his mother about how the Army will pay for college, and how it’s time for him to be the man around the house.