Not telling or asking Jes about a whole host of subjects: molesters, school experiences, guns, forensics.
Otherwise remaining friends.
Will remember this “interesting coincidence” and watch for signs that Jes is unhappy with mutual acquaintances or otherwise seeming obsessed or unhinged, and will re-evaluate the remaining friends portion of the above if necessary.
Happy Dead Abusive Bastard Day, and Merry Nicely-Executed Crimes to you all!
Like others, I’m not a big fan of vigilante justice, and I’ll go rent Mystic River again. I say this as someone who was sexually abused as a child, and whose abuser is walking around free.
This is a tough problem because although I don’t like vigilante justice, just being under the cloud of suspicion can ruin a person’s reputation and can cause a great deal of harm.
And while I don’t like vigilante justice, I think the chances are more likely that even if Jesse were guilty, that he wouldn’t commit another crime. Were
If in the end, I think I’d suffer from paralysis from analysis and would be unable to make up my mind.
One thing I wouldn’t do is to attempt to gather more information from him. I’m terrible at questioning people and he could read me like a book.
If Jesse’s that good, then lets face it: Jesse’s that careful. If the OP suspects, there easily could have been the slightest slip before game-face, making the OP a sincere liability.
Jesse will be inconsolable, of course. Confessing to the OP that he had been molested when he was 9? Finding out that the OP, his best friend, had tracked down and killed his molester in a fit of RO? Then, after learning that Jesse suspected, the trapped OP killing himself with that same 9mm?
Awful. Simply awful. :smack:
I must say, I’m pleasantly surprised by the number of people who wouldn’t say anything. Guess your hatred of child molesters is greater than your love of getting in other people’s biz. As it should be!
A few thousand kids, they’re going to need to narrow that list down a little. They’re not going to interview every name on the list. And I think prior criminal history is exactly the kind of thing they will look at to narrow down that list. Who is more likely to murder his molestor, a law-abiding citizen who lives on the other side of the country and they have no idea was even in the city, or a criminal with a history of emotional control problems, violence against people who wrong him, and lives in the same neighborhood?
But I, like Skald, am not convinced a lot of folks would come forward. The stigma and embarrassment of being molested is strong enough to keep people from coming forward when their actions can stop a molestor and prevent further crimes, their motivation only goes down if the perpetrator is prevented in a more permanent manner.
It doesn’t change my perception of his past truthfulness, it only colors my perception of how he might behave in the future.
There’s a distinction between being legally guilty of obstruction of justice or accessory after the fact, and feeling guilty of covering up a serious crime. Moral sense is not dictated by the law.
That’s the hardest part of this whole hypothetical - I don’t think there’s any situation where the relationship hasn’t been strained. Just the very fact that I have connected some observations and they suggest he committed murder is enough to have me rethinking my relationship. But yes, if you call the cops - even anonymously - you are taking an irrevocable action of your own that puts further distance in the friendship.
But make no mistake about one thing: you suspect your friend is now a cold-blooded killer. This is a murder a couple decades after the fact. This is no rage reaction, but a well-planned execution. The kind of person who can do that is a very scary person. Whomever Jesse used to be, the act of planning and executing this crime has changed him. If you truly think he did it, that’s something to keep in mind.
For me, it would be extremely difficult to remain friendly with someone I suspected of committing such an act, unless exonerating evidence came up. By exonerating evidence, I mean something more solid than “oh, he’s such a nice guy, he couldn’t have harmed anyone”. Yeah, a lot of people who knew Ted Bundy, including Ann Rule, thought the same thing. Calm, methodical planning of a killing decades after the alleged motive occurred says some very scary things about the person doing it, and I don’t think I could ever feel safe around such a person. What happens if he decides I’m a threat or have wronged him?
I could deal with someone who had committed such an act under extreme provocation, depending on such factors as the details of the situation and that person’s overall apparent mental health. A case occurred in my own family. My father committed suicide the day after I told my mother he’d been molesting me for three years (I was ten when my father died). At least, that’s the official version. I’d been taken into protective care and was not home at the time. My mother was, as was her father (who was a household member). I would not find it difficult to believe that either one of them could have pulled the trigger on my father under those circumstances, and in that case, with the situation unfolding AT THAT TIME, with an IMMEDIATE probability of future harm being done, I consider it quite understandable. I continued to have a good relationship with my grandfather clear up until his death over thirty years later. My mother and I have had more difficulty, but that has a lot more to do with her alcoholism.
The moral issues (which matter at least as much to me as the practical) are a separate discussion.
Murderers actually have a very low rate of recidivism. Obviously that’s not the case for serial killers, but a tiny percentage of murderers are serial killers.
I would never, ever, ever protect or remain friends with a person who committed a *sadistic *violent crime. That makes all the difference in the world, as far as I’m concerned. If he intentionally tortured even a child molester then I’m all over that shit. Just lost control and pummeled him? Eh.
Nope
b) Maybe, probably not
Ɣ) sure
iv) My desire for justice at any cost is less than my empathy for my friend. I would not support or help him in his revenge killing, but if he does it on his own, I’m letting it slide.
Yes but maybe Jesse still has friends in town. The son refused to talk at the press conference was he abused too? Did Jesse recently hear about the son of a friend who is currently being abused by this guy? If we’re going to speculate about what set him off lets look at all the options.
The problem with hypotheticals (although I love them) is that we get the emotions based on the words but not those from the relationships. A lot would depend on my relationship and history with Jesse but I’m leaning towards not bringing it up with the police and not bringing it up with Jesse. I would continue our friendship because I don’t know for sure. Maybe his gun was actually stolen but he thought he knew who it was, maybe he’s covering that person.
For all those reasons I wouldn’t make the assumption that Jesse was the killer and I wouldn’t talk to the police about it.
What I probably would do is casually mention to Jesse the story I’d seen on the news. If he wants to talk to me about it that’s his opening, if he doesn’t well that’s it. I’ll probably wonder for years but I wouldn’t pry any further.
If I have no positive duty to report this to the police and do not believe that the friend represents a continuing danger (e.g. I feel that he continues to be violent and vengeful and will likely commit further murders), then I keep my big mouth shut. The purposes of prison are vengeance, rehabilitation, and isolation to prevent crime. I generally don’t like to take revenge and none of the others are furthered if the person is already unlikely to commit further crimes.
I probably don’t want to know if he really did it. The evidence you gave is all circumstantial and doesn’t fully convince me. It’s mighty suspicious, but I can still maintain plausible deniability.
I’m not sure if I would distance myself from him. Everyone knows that everyone has done something shameful in their life. Also, I understand the term “bosom friend” to mean someone who is not simply a casual friend, but someone with whom you have a deep and profound emotional relationship. That’s not something that is destroyed easily. I might distance myself if I felt that he was a continuing danger to society.
But you don’t have any incriminating evidence–not really. You know Jess has motive; you know he might have had opportunity, but not that he definitely does.
Nitpick: you are using the word “motive” incorrectly. You mean decades after the alleged act occurred.
Not necessarily. Apart from my wife, my best friend in the universe is my baby sister, and we had a conversation on a similar subject a few weeks ago. She said that if she were on the run from the police she’d she’d come to me for help, because she knows I’d be on her side no matter what and would help her; and that’s true. I told her that in the same situation I wouldn’t go to her, because I know she’d be on my side and would help me no matter what, which is also true.
This one’s pretty straightforward to me. There’s not enough evidence to contact the police. I couldn’t tell you if the victim’s status as child molester is a factor in my decision. I’m generally opposed to killing people regardless of what evils they have committed.
Given the circumstances, I wouldn’t contact the police. I’m not so sure about whether I would talk to Jesse about it or not. On the one hand, it’s better to not be sure if the police come looking, so I’m less likely to have and give information that would incriminate my friend. Plus, I doubt I can be charged with anything if I don’t have solid evidence of the crime - they can’t charge me for an accessory if all I ever had was a suspicion. On the other hand, I’d have a burning curiosity to know. I also would remain friends with him.
Knowing Jesse’s reason for the murder is probably important in my decision; if I didn’t know why he (may) have killed Rutherford, I might be more concerned or inclined to report it. Not specifically because of what Rutherford did, but because I know Jesse had a good reason that wasn’t some imagined slight. As long as I know Rutherford did something real that wronged Jesse, exactly what it was isn’t a major concern for me.
I do not have the evidence, but there is enough to go policewards.
I am not in a position to put myself in a position of judgement, and in this thread posters are acting as judges in several different ways.
We don’t know if the molestation is real, we do not know if there are other victims of molestation who perhaps might need some closure, and the guy’s widow and children certainly desire some closure - they are not criminals - do we think its right to treat them so appallingly?
We are not even certain there have been no other murder victims, nor can we predict there will be no more.
Sitting around and do nothing is just abrogating your responsibility, if you want a law abiding society you make the hard choices and you take the steps that assert the rights of the community, instead of sitting there in bystander mode like a quivering blancmange not wanting to get involved.
The only risk you are taking is losing a friendship - so there is no-one else out there you can befriend?
