If someone is crushing another passenger to the point that the latter is injured, I’d say this isn’t about being “sizeist”.
HAHAHAHAHA! Sailor, you kill me. And Belrix, what kind of plane are you on? I guess I should fit perfectly into plane seats then since I stand about 5’7" tall and weigh 140 lbs. I don’t. I’ve got room to move around, stretch, turn on my side, fidget and whatever else I want to do except recline. (GRR! Those damn seats seem to only move back a single mm. Sleeping while sitting blows chunks.) Both of my brothers are over 6’ tall and weigh over 200 lbs and fit into the seats just fine. They’re not fat, but they’re definitely large guys who happen to fit just fine and dandy into their seats. I have seen fat people fit into the seats too. Seldom do I encounter folk who are just so damn rotund, that they spill into the seats around them, thereby smashing their unfortunate neighbors. I am not a “sizeist.” I seriously do not give a lukewarm fuck about anyone’s weight but my own. I’m just saying I wish that people will keep their body masses off of mine. If they take up a lot of space, buy two seats. If they can’t afford it, cry me a river. Don’t buy just one and then use your seat and mine. It’s not fair to anyone.
My job sometimes requires me to fly and the company will pay for only one size of seat, economy. Some planes, like the very common 737, don’t have anything but economy class seating, too.
Personally, I think this thread has devolved, rapidly, into another fat-bashing thread. Love the sinner but hate the sin but frankly some of us have no choice. One or two rows could be build 3:2 on sizing with additional leg room. For a 737 with 136 seats, this might reduce the total seat count by maybe four - less than 3% for one of the smallest planes in the air. The loss of revenue would be negligable to zero considering that many flights fly partially empty already. BFG
MeanOldLady, I think it was a new 777. They jammed so many controls into the arms of the seat that they won’t lift all the way anymore. Poor design.
I’ve lost 35 lbs & my Dr. wants me to loose another 100. This makes my doctor-approved, build-appropriate, target weight around 240 lbs. For a man 6’3" with a linebacker build, this is about as much as I can hope for.
And for you skinny folks, be nice or I’ll step on you.
MelCthefirst, it isn’t sizeist to want people to pay for what they use. When you order a meal from a restaurant you get the portion they give you. If you want more you order another item… and pay for it. The airline industry is not a buffet. Other arguments to this point are expressed throughout the thread. As was mentioned before, if someone is handicapped in such a way that they take up a great deal more space, they should have to pay for it too.
If they ever do require large people to purchase two seats, the should definitely allow for two large people to purchase three seats rather than pay for four. This is exactly the point I made in the previous paragraph, pay for what you use.
Someone jokingly mentioned that we should have larger people pay more taxes because they use more resources. You can’t really say that they do and present evidence for it, but they will pay more health insurance. They are more likely to become ill and therefore pay more for insurance… you pay for what you use.
Only one problem with your argument is that most airlines are more than happy to sell all of the seats on each flight, regardless of class, for different prices. Between supersavers, e-savers, web-only fares, military and government discounts, employee “companion pass” fares, frequent flier specials, package rates, agency discounts, Priceline/Hotwire type deals and so forth – not to mention the staggering rate changes based upon 21, 14, 7, and 3 day advance purchases, there are hundreds of dollars of fluctuation between the fares paid by passengers for the exact same accomodations on any given flight.
Further, depending on how and when tickets were purchased, a shlub flying in coach wondering if they could make the bags of pretzel snacks any smaller (if they even bother to serve a bag of pretzel snacks) could have shelled out three times as much for that privelege as a person in first class enjoying a little ceramic ramekin of warm mixed nuts, heavy on the Filberts.
Don’t believe me? Try this – go to your airport and walk up to the ticket counter and ask how much it’ll be to get on the next flight to wherever. Then get out of line, walk to the nearest pay phone and call the 800 number and ask how much it’ll be to buy a ticket by phone for that exact same flight. In a national test, some consumer protection group found the fares quoted would be different 9 out of 10 times.
Airline fares are truly not based on either the “for transport” or “per seat” premise. If they were based upon transport, a seat from New York to Los Angeles would never cost less than a seat from New York to Chicago or New York to Omaha, because NY -> LA is a further distance and clearly costs more in terms of fuel, increased need for plane maintenance, etc. If they were based upon a per seat premise, then every seat on every plane (at least per class) would sell for the exact same fare no matter how or when the ticket were purchased.
When we look at it outside of the scope of who does and does not fit into the seats, airline fares aren’t fair at all. They’re not based upon anything objective whatsoever. It’s pointless to try to argue about whether or not large people (be they tall, muscular or obese) should have their fares “underwritten” by the thin when you stop to realize that everyone is having their fare underwritten, in part, by every person on the plane who paid more for their ticket. If we want parity in airline transportation, we need to start with base ticket price first, then we can address issues like variable seat sizes based upon various passengers’ physical needs.
I need to fly and my company will not pay for it is like I need to eat and my company will not pay for it. Non argument. that’s your company’s problem, not mine but if you can’t afford to pay for something then you’ll have to do without.
Same thing about planes which only have economy. Tough cookies. There are many things I cannot do and I do not expect every business to accomodate me. They are free to offer their product or service on whatever terms they choose and I am free to buy or not. That is the way the market works.
You can take your business to another airline which offers more space but by being cheap you are actually driving those out of business and encouraging the rest to offer small seats as that is wht you are buying. That’s like eating at McDonald’s and complaining the food is not first class restaurant. what did you expect? And saying you can’t afford a first class restaurant does not mean anything.
I dont see this as being a “sizeist” issue. You get what you pay for, and the more you pay, the more you get. If you’re fat then yeah, your life is probably gonna be a lot more expensive. Bigger clothes, bigger car, more food, and you need a hell of a lot more space. But even though bigger people do need more room, there’s a pretty high likelyhood that the airline WILL NOT CARE EITHER WAY.
Yeah, airlines should make all seats wider. But they’re not gonna. I think a good solution would be to have an “Economy Size” plane or something like that, where the seats are wider, isles are bigger, and bathrooms are bigger. I am 5 foot 6 inches and about 110 pounds, and I think the airline bathrooms are small. I wonder how fat person feels. This is why we should have big things for big people.
And I feel a hell of a lot more pity for the skinny person than for the fat person sitting next to her. I’m all for the plastic divider idea! 
Fat-bashing is one of the last acceptable predjudices.
Imagine a white comedian making “Little Sambo” jokes. How 'bout some politician saying that homosexuality is immoral. Outrage! Attack!
But, hey, fat jokes are funny! “What’s the matter, Chubbo, I thought fat people were supposed to be jolly? When you go to the beach, does the tide come in? Do people keep trying to push you back out to sea? Do the joggers do laps for exercise?”
I’m amazed by the “I’m 5 foot 7 & 140 pounds” and “I’m 5 foot 6 & 110 pounds” making all these “all you gotta do is lose weight” comments. Well, frankly, it’s a lot easier to say “all you gotta do is…” than it is to actually do it. After a certain point, the weight is its own impediment to its removal.
For most obese people, weight has been an eternal problem; glandular, DNA or whatever, it’s a constant battle. Day-in and day-out, constantly keeping control. Nobody likes to battle all the time, especially when the results are usually slow & difficult to see.
The front of the magazine screams, “Lose ten pounds in Ten Days!!”. Ten Pounds. Big Fucking Deal. Try “Lose 100 lbs in 2 years”. When’s the last time you made a lifetime committment to give something up - especially something as central to daily life as food. It’s not like you can quit eating like you can quit smoking entirely. It’s like you can have a little fix each day but you can’t have what you really want - you can’t have what other “normal” people have - somehow you’ve been singled out.
What a normal person can have is too much for me thanks to the wonders of DNA & metabolism. A McDonald’s value meal is all the food I can have in a single day according to weight watchers. “Hey Belrix, we’re going to the food court for lunch - want to come.” “Sorry, no, I’m having soup.” Again.
It’s like giving up something for Lent for the rest of your life.
The recovering alcoholic can probably appreciate a fat person’s problems. “But addiction is a diseeeeeease” screams the masses, “they deserve our help.” Some poor kid kills himself on drugs on a webcam and it’s “how sad, how tragic” - he’s a victim, a fallen soldier. The homeless alcoholic is a poor victim, “Let’s start a program for this poor victim of disease.”
Some overweight person buys a box of cookies in the supermarket & it’s “Hey Fatty - put them down! Hey! I’m trying to do you a favor, here.” Don’t think it doesn’t happen.
Somebody forgets my name & I become “Big Guy”. “Hey, Big Guy, long time no see!” If you’re handicapped, does your default name become “Gimp”? How about “Shorty” for any man under 5 foot 7? Oh, wait, that’d be rude, right?
For the drug & alcohol addicted it’s counseling, insurance coverage, corporate assistance programs. For overweight people it’s “Eat less & Excercise More”.
$120 a month for an effective weight-loss drug - not covered by insurance.
Insurance coverage for AIDS is better & the rate of survival worse. But, hey, we can’t make AIDS jokes, either. “Jihad” screams the masses if you do.
“Hey Smoker - all you gotta do is stop lighting it!”
Maybe your problem isn’t overweight people, it’s crazy people. “But it’s a mental diseeeease!!” screams the masses. “Hey - shut up & get back in the basement. You offend me and intrude on my space. I didn’t pay for this meal here just to have you sitting at the next table talking to Harvey the Invisible Rabbit.”
“Hey, Flamer! All you gotta do is just start liking girls, huh?”
No life insurance coverage past basic coverage - additional coverage is rejected. My only health “problem” is weight, not high blood pressure, not diabetes, not heart disease.
There’s a lot of support on this board for the homosexuals, the transexuals, the addicted, the recovering, the depressed, the treated. Lord help you if your overweight.
-B
An apology to our local homosexual community & recovering addicts. The above was said to illustrate a point - not in judgement.
And Smokers, you should quit.
I find that public seating in general is uncomfortably small. Screw the size of my ass, my shoulders are squished too!
I’m 5’7", 220 lbs, much of which is muscle weight, so I’m not even as big as my weight implies. I’m smaller looking than a friend of mine, yet I wear a size 20 when she’s wearing 16s. I am by no means thin, but I am NOT morbidly obese. But certain sporting event/airline seats require squeezing into. That’s ridiculous.
I’d like to see our goverment measure the hip and shoulder widths of a wide sampling of Americans and suggest a seat sizing standard based on that information. That way, we have something to hold businesses up to, and can tell when a venue is selling smaller-than-recommended seats. I’m not suggesting they MANDATE a seat size, just set a sizing standard against which to compare. Kind of like knowing how long a yard is supposed to be so you can tell if you’re getting more or less than a standard yard of something.
As Americans are getting bigger, stadium seats are actually shrinking. I say 20" seats for all!
I’m going to assume you’re referring to the other poster on this thread who also happens to be 5’7" 140 as I have no fat bashed or said anything like “hey, just shed some lbs, dude” anywhere. I’m not making any statements about anyone’s weight and whether or not it’s glandular or beyond the person’s control or whatever. I can’t enforce this enough, people, I … don’t … care. I’m bothered by anyone whose body is touching mine while I’m on the plane. If someone takes up two seats, that’s unfortunate. Really. What’s even more unfortunate is having my body smothered by the lady next to me. Do not oppress the people around you. It’s rather uncomfortable, nobody likes it. Don’t wanna do that? Fine, why don’t I just swing my leg over the armrest and stretch myself out over someone’s lap? Yes, yes, one is intentional, the other is not, but what difference does that make? I’m still in someone’s seat and it’s not right. It would be considerate if the large person would get 2 tickets and not make anyone else uncomfy. Yes, it costs more, but so what? Life sucks monkey huevos sometimes. Two seats = paying the price for two seats. Otherwise, I’ll just buy one ticket and then sprawl out all over the entire row. Why not? I’m just one person.
Oh yeah, and I take back what I said about assuming you’re referring to the other 5’7" 140 lbs person. He didn’t fat bash either.
Hasn’t that question been answered 20 times already?
Airlines aren’t a feel good hippy charity business with equality for everyone. They’re a friggin business, selling a service.
Please tell me you’re joking? Why should you pay more to use more of a commercial product? Because you use more of a commercial product.
Because flying is not a right. You say it’s something you like to do - then it’s something you have to pay for.
A common complaint. Dave Barry wrote than on any given flight, no two people have paid the same amount for the ticket.
But the larger seats will always cost more than the smaller economy seat for an indivual passenger. Meaning the airline is charging you not for the transportation alone. Comfort costs extra.
Some obese people have genetic predispositions or some other physical characteristic that significantly lead them to tend to obesity – this accounts for a small proportion of obese people.
Otherwise, it is generally true that:
calories in minus calories out equals weight gain
Okay, this is kind of a whitewash because the formula is based upon the assumption that we can adequately and usefully metabolise all the calorific content of the food we eat, but this is hardly mitigation for the obese who claim “And you know I hardly eat at all.”
On the whole obese people eat more, or do less, than non-obese people. By and large this is a personal choice (like choosing to smoke, or drinking beer, or humming to oneself.)
This choice element is what separates it from issues of race, gender, sexuality, or disability.
This choice element is what makes it offensive when you claim that the criticism of the antisocial consequences of the by-choice actions of the obese amounts to a predudice.
I have to agree it’s not comfortable when you’re being squished in by someone who is spilling out of their seat from all angles.
I’m rather short, n’ fit quite comfortably in all airline seats. I do, however, usually travel with a service dog. Sometimes, airlines are stupid and forget to book space for the dog (even if they were told he was coming along - legally, they must reserve a seat’s space for the dog who lies on the floor - no, there is no extra charge for working animals).
I once travelled from Chicago to Minneapolis crushed between the window and an overweight couple, with a dog practically squished into the bulkhead in front of us, at my feet. He couldn’t even lie down. Thankfully, it’s a short flight… and it was packed, so they couldn’t move our neighbours. Not only that, but they were related and didn’t want to be separated. Great!
sigh
I don’t much care if people are overweight. It’s none of my business. I do care, though, when it puts my working animals in uncomfortable situations where they risk injury and/or being unable to perform their tasks to the best of their abilities once they leave an aircraft. I don’t particularily like being squished into the wall, either.
Beh.
I was going to make a post about how although I train 5 times a day for an hour and eat half my Daily Caloric requirments I’m still about roughtly arond your size. I was also going to mention about wanting to thrash the hell out of certain people in this thread, but you have summed up everything I had to say nicely without threat of viloence. Bless you.
So I’ll poke you in the sides and call you Biggie McLargeFry 
So, you work out 5 hours day (or is that 5 11 and a 1/2 minute sessions?) and getting , what, 1500 to 1700 calories a day? And you’re maintaining 240 lbs???
Allow to call that bullshit.
allow ME!
Dammit!
Get yourself down to the nearest nutritionalist, because we have to find out the reason for your super-human powers. Criminy! The secret to saving the starving populations of the world could be right there in your body.
Or you could just be lying to yourself.
And thrash away, fatty.