So why is the ire directed at the obese, when it’s the airlines that are responsible?
Why are so many people so ready and willing to dump on fat people?
Whoa. What in holy hell happened in here while I was asleep?! Who the hell was fat bashing? Will you people stop getting so damn insecure and defensive! Why do people think I care about anyone but myself? I seriously do not. Gain 300 lbs for all I care, I’m still trim so how does it affect me? Oh wait, it affects me when the excess 300 lbs is in the seat that I paid for. Other than than, go nuts with the whole weight thing. Doesn’t bother me a lick.
FWIW, I do not think most of the fat people I see have thyroid or glandular problems or whatever else excuse people are using. NONE of the fat people I know personally do, and I know a ton (err, no pun intended). But that’s beside the point. Your glands/eating habits/misc matter not to me.
KellyM, stop. Please.
The bad part is you’re not kidding.
Well right the fuck on, Kelly. I’m glad to see that you don’t, like, contradict yourself. Consistency rules.
Well be uncomfortable in your own damn seat. And stop exaggerating! For the love of all that is good and holy, people, stop acting like the planes are so damn cramped that you can’t even move. They’re really not. Even if they were, does that mean that everyone should sprawl all over the place and chill out in people’s laps? You know, I’ve been on four different planes in the last seven days and God knows how many in my lifetime and this is the first time anyone has ever touched me while on the plane. People who fit comfortably in their seats don’t lean over and sleep on me because it’s rude. People who are so large that they cannot fit should not touch me because it’s rude. Too bad she couldn’t have bought another seat or sat in business class so that she didn’t smash all the people around her. Oh wait, she could have. Guess she was just rude too. Ah, but wait again. I’ve forgotten that it’s unfair for people who take up more space should have to pay for it. Silly me.
KellyM, go back and check the posts in the thread. You’ll see several from slightly larger-than-average folks (whether muscular, tall, whatever) who have problems with the seats in some airplanes. I, myself, posted such a thing.
I didn’t notice any ire directed at the obese per se.
The majority of overweight people simply do not eat right and get enough exercise. It seems like others get irritated when they try to argue that it’s a disease and they can’t help it. Sure, some people have conditions that make it impossible to lose weight, but it’s likely a small percentage.
I don’t dislike overweight people, but I get tired of hearing the same old excuses. Plenty of people lose weight. I know several who have had success with diet and exercise, programs such as weight watchers, or even the gastric bypass (which I am not advocating).
We all have obstacles in our lives, it’s your choice to try to overcome them or not. Just my .02.
KellyM, I think that the general attitude is something like this.
“Airplane seats are too small, and therefore they inconvenience a significant part of all travelers, either because they’re too large for their seats, or because their neighbour is too large for their seats. This problem is not new, but it is certainly getting more commonplace (i.e. people get bigger, on average). The airlines don’t seem to be changing their configurations. If that doesn’t change, then the ones who don’t fit the seats are going to have to adapt.”
Whether the airlines are fully to blame is up for debate, by the way. Take British Airways. They have an Economy Plus class with wider seats. Of course, these seats are a little more expensive than an economy seat. And of course, they don’t force overweight people to book those seats. But if they ever do (like South West did), then you can be sure that the overweight person will pay more than for an economy seat. Ergo, you pay per square inch used, and IMHO, that’s not unreasonable.
Cite, please?
MeanOldLady, just because I would prefer not to be touched doesn’t mean I feel the need to go postal on whoever it was who touched me. I have compassion for my fellow travelers, something which apparently many other people lack.
I think KellyM might be sticking up for her girlfriend, and understandably so. I mean, she’s pregnant, has medical issues, and is overweight. No one likes to see a pile-on directed (indirectly) at someone they love. But this is not a fat-bashing thread.
The fact is, this is the biggest gripe airline passengers have, and the airlines (for the most part) have done nothing to address it. The answer may be higher prices. The flying public will have to decide if it’s worth it to be squished in their seat in order to fly cheaper.
On the other hand, I didn’t pay to hear a screaming baby at 50,000 feet, either. But I still have to put up with it. In fact, I’d rather have a heavy flight neighbor than a screaming baby ANYWHERE on the plane. I’m just not going to let the space thing get under my skin (pardon the pun). I may have an easy-going attitude because I rarely fly, but I agree with the other poster who suggested just smiling and trying to get along for a few hours.
HA! Right, I went completely “postal” on the lady who touched me. You should have seen it, security was called and everything. I’m postal and lack compassion too, apparently(??). Look, whatever. Don’t touch me on the plane, ok? You don’t have the right to. People don’t have the right to stretch out and drool in your hair (eek, sorry lee) or to kick up their feet on your lap or curl up and sleep all over you. That’s ridiculous. Get off of me! I don’t care if you’re fat or not, I do not have “compassion” for people who think it’s okay to use my seat as theirs.
Kalhoun, the airline industry is pretty fucked up as it is. Southwest is the only major airline to make something resembling a profit, and they do it by packing the passengers in like sardines and treating them like cargo.
Southwest’s “two seat” policy would make sense if they would guarantee you two adjacent seats. They don’t. An obese person who buys two tickets may very well be assigned seats 12B and 17D. How the hell are you supposed to spread out over two seats separated by half the cabin? And even if you buy two tickets they’ll still overbook the other seat, and unless you’re especially careful at the gate your other seat will be marked as a “no show” and it’ll be filled by a standby passenger.
Southwest’s policy isn’t about ensuring passenger comfort for all passengers, it’s about pricing fat people off the plane. Fat people being on the plane makes for extra complaints, and Southwest already gets more complaints than they want simply because their service is so poor relative to, say, United or American. It’s just that the current zeitgeist that has declared obesity a “national epidemic” without any good medical evidence (did you know that obese women have no significant difference in lifespan or medical quality of life than “normal weight” women? See this article.) has made it acceptable for Southwest to pursue such a policy. Since I consider many of the current popular beliefs about obesity to be medically unfounded, I intend to resist them at every turn, including this one.
Coldfire, Fin_man & others have repeatedly stated that this isn’t a fat-bashing thread. I offer the following:
“Fat Broad” by MeanOldLady in the OP - if she was a skinny space grabber would she still have been a “broad”? Derogatory.
“Behemoth” in Coldfire’s first posting.
“humungous” & “Gelatinous” - Jack Sarang
“Blubber” - MeanOldLady
“Fatties” - Cagiva650
“behemoths” - Mort Furd
Comparison to whales & porpoises - Dinsdale
“Gimp” - Fin_man - not a fat bash thing but still a marvel of crassness
“Fatty” - The Great Unwashed (to Sagasumono directly)
These are fighting words. How 'bout a thread about homosexuality where we use “Faggot”, “Queer”, “Fudgepacker”, etc. The “over-PC-ness” of this board would descend on these words like flies to a corpse.
Any thread about overweight and/or obese people rapidly starts using terms that are offensive. Somehow, it’s OK, because, as I’ve said before, Fat-hating is one of the last acceptable predjudices.
There are those that made being fat one of choice - somehow it’s OK that I can’t get extended life insurance because I’m going to die early anyway. It’s OK that Meridia is $120 a month and uncovered by insurance because I’m fat by choice.
Let’s make AIDS drugs non-covered - the person with AIDS probably got it by choice. Hey, let’s refuse to set the broken bones of skiers - they didn’t have to be skiing, it was by choice. We can lump all those sports injuries in with that, too. The mentally ill aren’t actually in danger - it’s just a matter of quality of life. I guess those programs can be cut, too.
Alcoholics & drug treatment programs are part of my insurance plan - those are choice issues.
I’ve got it, I’ll become a junkie to lose weight. The recovery plan is covered & by then I’ll be thin. Yeah! That’s the ticket!
Southwest does not have assigned seating.
Cites for Kelly:
http://www.cchs.net/health/health-info/docs/1000/1058.asp?index=5783
“While there are some glandular disorders which cause weight gain, these are comparatively rare and usually treatable. Thyroid disorders are probably the most common. Steroid drugs, oral contraceptives, HRT, and insulin used by diabetics may cause weight gain too. But the vast majority of overweight people are overweight because they consume more calories than they burn.”
http://www.spotlighthealth.com/morbid_obesity/obesity_overview/oo_obesity_statistics.html
http://www.spotlighthealth.com/morbid_obesity/obesity_overview/oo_obesity_statistics.html
http://www.thehealthyforum.com/bodymapssec/nutrition_obes_sug.html
"The annual number of deaths attributable to poor diet and inactivity. 300,000 deaths
Only 22% of American adults meet recommended physical activity guidelines
4 out of 10 American adults say they NEVER engage in physical activity during their leisure time
At any given time 33-40% of women and 20-24% of men are trying to lose weight
Americans spend $33 billion annually on weight-loss products and services"
Are you seriously suggesting that the majority of Americans who are overweight or obese aren’t that way because of their diet and excerise habits?
You might want to alert the AMA. They seem to feel differently. Sample quote from the article: “Dr. Hill says that the bottom line for weight maintenance is eating fewer calories or increasing caloric need (by increasing physical activity).”
I agree with Kalhoun–I can certainly see why Kelly M could take some offense at some of the things said in this thread. For the most part, everyone has made rational points without resorting to below-the-belt blows; as most of us probably know, however, all it takes is one insensitive comment to raise hackles, and once they’re up, it’s easy to feel bashed despite the intentions that people may have.
I can’t tell you how many threads dealing with race have raised my hackles to the point where almost any agreement (however small) with the poster of a comment that I consider racist (even if the agreement is not with the racist comment itself, but with a larger point being made) comes across to me as, “Calm down, Darky! The Grand Wizard has a point, but nobody here is being racist against you porch monkeys! Why, my maid is Colored, and I give her a watermelon every Christmas!”
Sometimes it just takes a few deep breaths. 
I personally think the airlines are going to have to get it from both sides–from the overweight passengers who have a hard time fitting comfortably in seats, and from the other passengers who are inconvenienced by this–before any change is made.
As others have said, it’s simple economics: If every passenger on a plane weighs less than, say, 175 lbs. and is less than 5’11" tall, the plane can be filled to capacity and there’s little discomfort for anyone (aside from neighbors of the the wailing baby or what have you).
Is this a realistic scenario? Hell, no, but work with me.
To continue, if that same plane is filled with people who are overweight to the point of spilling over the seats, NOBODY is comfortable, and everybody might not even fit. The only answer is to take a few people off (and give them the “Take a Later Flight” freebie), or to magically make the seats bigger, which means (either way) that the airline is making less money.
So guess which scenario the airline would prefer?
And, unfortunately, guess which group of people they’re more willing to piss off to keep their money?
I know that it’s equally unrealistic to expect everyone to, say, boycott until the airlines solve the problem without apparent discrimination against larger folks, but I think that it’s going to take protests from skinnier passengers to institute a change in this department, especially since obesity is often considered a choice (whether or not it’s true in specific cases).
It’s the Christopher Darden Effect.
Eh? Not so fast, Belrix. Yes, I still would have called her a broad. I didn’t even notice the pun (fat broad, heh) until just now. I wasn’t going for any word play or trying to be offensive at all. If anything, the word “broad” is more offensive to females than it is to large people since I used the term to refer to a woman. Most women - of all statures - find “broad” at least somewhat offensive. The term was meant to – wait, why am I even bothering? Shut up. I don’t have a problem with fat people unless they’re in my seat. It’s one ear and out the other with you, isn’t it?
And FedEx discriminates against large packages by charging more to carry them. :rolleyes:
If I were informed by the ticket agent that I was only going to get 1/2 of a seat because Charles Barkley was going to sit next to me, I wouldn’t take the flight. My reasonable expectation (and it is reasonable, because it has been my experience on every flight I’ve ever been frickin on - and I’m a frequent traveler) is that my leg may be rubbing against my neighbor’s leg, and there may be issues over the armrest, but the seat is mine.
And what I pay for is my reasonable expectation.
Sua
Your credibility has flown out the window.
Southwest doesn’t treat their customers like cargo - at least in my experience. I fly Southwest about once every 6-8 weeks. If anything, they are the ONLY airline that treats their customers well.
Southwest does not “assign” seats. It is first-board, first-sit. All seats (but those in the cockpit) are available for ANYBODY. True, if you are near the end of the boarding, the probability of finding two seats together is low BUT you can pre-board.
Then you say “Southwest already gets more complaints than they want simply because their service is so poor relative to, say, United or American.” To that I say cite cite cite cite **FUCKING CITE!!! **
Ooh! Is this the same Sagasumono who was
?
And are you the same Belrix that said
?
Skinny? Fatty? Same difference. And I am sure that I could go on.
Step on me? You’d have to catch me first.
Obviously, you have little experience flying Southwest Airlines. They can’t guarantee you two seats side-by-side because they don’t have reserved seating. You get on the plane, and pick your seat. The best way to get two seats is to show up early, to ensure that you get on the plane in the first group, or ask to be pre-boarded. If personal size is really an issue, make your reservation via their 800-number, and ask for the flight that is least booked. I can assure you that you will get two seats side-by-side, and one of them will be free. I’ve done that when flying with Aaron, and SWA has not only been more accommodating than any other airline, but they’ve never treated Aaron as a nuisance. (I draw that comparison because there are those who argue that travelling next to a baby is worse than sitting next to an overweight person.)
In any event, this isn’t a “fat-is-bad” issue, it’s a personal-space issue. Being fairly large myself (250 lbs. as of a couple weeks ago), I am sensitive to this. I don’t like to be touched by strangers, and I comport myself accordingly. I don’t claim that others owe me their space for my comfort; nor do I owe them mine for theirs. I simply realize that in order to minimize contact, I must make certain allowances. Big freakin’ deal.
Oh, and Kelly, you might be interested in this.
Robin