FUCKFUCKFUCK
I’m reading this thread, knowing how I’m going to reply, and you come with that before me!?!?
FUCK that was funny.
Will nobody rid Quartz of this burdensome bishop?!
WILLYOUKEEPYOURVOICEDOWN!
You remember what happened the last time.
looks from side to side nervously
Great. Now I have Brian Blessed yelling in my ear.
Well, since this is the Pit: you’re a fucking moron. Before you pull your thong any further up your ass and jack off all aroung about your Western cultural superiority, take a second to recognize that neither this Archbishop nor I anr making some sort of nutjob argument for moral relativism. I believe that a number of things like slavery, forcing women to wear burquas against their will, stoning people for any number of stupid offenses and what not are wrong, and you’re a total jackass attempting to create a straw man argument that I’m condoning it.
This is about fucking music. Yes, the church, you, I, and everyone else suffers from a lack of cultural diversity, and unless you have some moral fucking objection to anyone’s style of folk music, shut the fuck up and deal with the fact that you’ve created a stupid, ill considered rant.
Well, what clearly hasn’t occurred to you is that this isn’t about ‘Western’ culture v. non-Western culture. The example he discussed in most detail - because it’s the one about which he has personal experience - was the export of English forms of worship to Wales.
I’m aware of that. I gave the example of western culture from my own POV.
Well, he is a Christian, and thus believes that Christianity is correct, and should be spread. I don’t see any problem with that. I mean, I disagree with it and think he’s wrong, but don’t think that he shouldn’t have that belief, if you see what I mean.
What he’s saying (as I see it), is actually somewhat of a breath of fresh air. I think. I interpret it as “well, Christianity, the belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ and salvation through that belief, is the correct religion. So we should attempt to spread that glorious news throughout the world, so that all may be saved. HOWEVER, there is no need to link Christianity with the precise cultural artifacts that it happens to have assumed in Western culture. If other cultures adopt Christianity, it ought to be possible for them to do so in the context of their own cultures. If (the stereotypical) African tribes with rich cultural heritage of drum music become Christian, they should be able to use their rich cultural heritage of drum music to lay down some killer rhythms for Christ, instead of trying to sing Gregorian chants and being told that their drums are primitive and evil and non-Christian”.
“And if the (stereotypical) Japanese martial artists with a rich cultural heritage of whomping on people become Christian, they should be able to use their fighting style to kick ass for the Lord!”
Now THAT is what The Passion of the Christ needed…
Heh, I think it’s funny that people are bitching at the Archbishop for saying that maybe the church went too far on the cultural hegemony tip.
The truth is that Christian missionaries have completely fucked up what they were trying to do over the last couple of millenia. What they are doing isn’t bad. The message of christ can easily be ‘shared’ with other cultures. The problem most often is that it was ‘imposed’ on other cultures. There is nothing wrong with sharing one’s culture with another culture.
Superiority of culture is completely subjective, and claiming superiority is nothing more than saying “Western Civ, GOOOOO EAGLES!”, cultures are radically different and all have their high points and low points.
For instance I am not into the whole burqua thing, but I love Hash, Hookahs and Shwarma, all things that come from the middle east that have enriched my life. My civilization is HARDLY superior.
Enforcing hymns on other cultures is probably one of the single most damaging things christian missionaries did. I remember growing up what all the fundie christians were saying about rock and roll. I generally think the idea of ‘bad’ music came from a deep seated sexual repression that one did not wish to release by playing music in the deeper ranges, which is one of the main reasons why people who listen to techno listen to it so loudly.
It’s that sort of cultural hegemony that has caused the problem, and that’s exactly what he was saying. He was referring specifically to music, and I couldn’t agree with him more. If you want to hate him for being christian I suppose that’s your ignorance to bear, but I maintain that there is nothing wrong with sharing one’s culture, it’s the enforcement that is wrong.
Erek
Besides, Episcopal hymns FUCKING SUCK!
Speaking as someone who attends an Episcopal church, I will opine that Rowan Williams is indeed an ass.
No, they don’t suck.
What?!! (I’ve sung in Episcopal choirs since I was a teenager and I’m singing a Requiem tonight.)
I read the speech and it makes sense to me. Then again, I use Zen meditation as a form of prayer sometimes, and the music my church sings during Communion is African-American Gospel style. I think the current Hymnal incorporates at least one hymn, “Jesu, Jesu! Fill Us With Your Love” which is African, but I don’t have a copy of the hymnal handy. If we try to make converts without respecting the culture of those converts, we’ll fail. As the Archbishop said in his speech, being One Body doesn’t mean we have to be identical.
CJ
All church music sucks.
And it blows too if it involves an organ.
Ninjas For Jesus? So who would win in a fight, NFJ or Pirates For Christ?
Fuck yeah!
The Bible says Jesus has Real Ultimate Power. It doesn’t say anything about boarding ships.