My parents always promised that if I got in a fight at school and it was justified (self-defense, or standing up to a bully), they would not only defend me if I got in trouble, but I’d get some kind of present for being awesome.
I would say if your kid feels he can take the guy, beat the ever living crap out of him. Then again, that’s my solution to everything.
Absolutely have him speak with his karate teacher. And if the karate teacher doesn’t help him learn to defend himself with confidence, it’s time to find the kid a new karate school.
In my school, I think out of about 90 moves we’re taught by the time you’re an adult brown belt, three are offensive. All the rest show you how to move out of the way, control the offender’s hand/weapon/body and get a quick jab in where needed.
With the younger kids they really stress shouting and confidence when confronted, and being able to walk away when possible. I think this is great.
Oh god, I was bullied mercilessly in high school. We were another school where “tough guys” traveled in packs and beat downs could end up as hospital stays, and I was a punk rock kid and a skater with a real smart mouth about insults and the audacity to talk to girls like normal human beings, and I got endless amounts of shit about it from jocks and burnouts. My parents went for the PC thing at first, and then immediately shifted to the fight back mentality when they saw how futile that was. As often as not I got my ass handed to me, but there is definitely more respect given to guys who go down swinging and lands a few good punches. After a while you learn that most guys don’t really know how to fight and a kick to the nuts and a good couple of face shots could take care of most bullies.
I wish I had learned that earlier and that I would have stood up for myself at a younger age. There is never any shame in sticking up for yourself, and sometimes that means fighting for it. Good life lesson to learn as soon as possible.
I vote for a Pre-emptive first strike. This always works with any potential conflict. 
In most cases, perhaps. But I don’t think the bullies are hiding any WMD’s…
If he punches the kid and wins the fight it will give him confidence that will last a long, long time. If he punches the kid and gets his butt whooped, he’s still going to have more confidence than if he just stood there and took the bullying time after time.
If my kid is being Bullied on the bus, I’d pop him in the nose. It’s a tough world out there, and the bullies of today will be the bosses of tomorrow. Wouldn’t want him to be a problem employee, now, would we? So. Better learn the lesson early.
:rolleyes:
IME, the only thing a bully understands is peace through superior firepower. You don’t have to even win the fight against the bully. If you hurt him, he’ll go after easier prey.
Story time!!!
I was in kindergarten. After the first couple of months, I started riding the bus instead of having Mom drive me. There was an 8th grader named Michael Keel that was a total dick. Constantly in trouble, raised hell every day, etc. Anyway he sat next to me one afternoon and made me cry by taking out his pocket knife and telling me he was going to cut out my asshole.
The next afternoon, I walked up to Mrs. Beason the bus driver, and told her that I’d heard Michael calling her “a b-i-c-h.” Was a complete lie, but I’d seen another little bastard get his ass tore up for it. So she took me to Mr. Logan’s office (he was the highschool principal) and had me tell him what I heard Michael say. I was really intimidated but I knew I had to go through with it. He thanked me and Mrs. Beason sent me back to the bus.
When I got back, Michael wasn’t on the bus. Mrs. Beason came back a few minutes later. After a few more minutes, Mr. Logan came out and threw Michael onto the bus. I’ll never forget it. He’d removed his suit jacket and rolled up his sleeves. Both their faces were really red and were screaming at one another. “I didn’t do anything!” “Don’t LIE to me boy or I’ll bust you again! Now go sit down!” Michael was almost in tears from the frustration and embarassment.
As Michael walked to the back of the bus to sit down, he looked me straight in the eye. We locked eyes for a second and it was one of those weird situations where both people understand each other perfectly without saying a word. Michael was friendly to me from that day on. He even beat the piss out of another guy that was picking on me. I gave him a fruit rollup for that.
Wow. I didn’t realize how many similar stories there are out there. The one and only time I got in a fight it was all self defense and brought two years of bullying to a screeching ass halt.
The games began in 6th grade with a couple of the serious white trash girls in my class. They used to call me names in front of people, threaten me, grab my bag or my books and spill them as much as possible, but the physical violence didn’t start until one Friday when school was letting out.
The big one and her friend were walking behind me in front of the school as close as possible, stepping on my heels and yelling in my ears. When this failed to get the response they wanted, (I kept walking, hoping that they would get bored and knock it off.) the big one hauled off as hard as she could, and with a closed fist, hit me right between my shoulder blades. This was enough to knock the wind out of me and make me drop my books, but I didn’t fight back because back then I was TERRIFIED of authority and didn’t want to get in trouble for fighting on school grounds. Seeing me gasp for air must have been the reaction the bitch was looking for, because she turned to walk away. Her parting remark to me was, “You’d better not even try to come here on Monday you little bitch, because I’m going to make sure you don’t make it.”
I went home and told my Dad what had happened and what was going to happen on Monday. Dad took me out in the front yard and proceeded to find out if I could defend myself. He must have been satisfied with what he saw, because he told me that if they showed up on Monday, to give her what she had coming to her and he would back me up.
Monday morning came and as I was walking down my driveway to walk to school, I saw the big one and her jackass friend waiting for me a little ways up the street. I heard them yelling at me immediately. I kept walking, praying that they weren’t serious, but they were escalating. They caught up with me right before I got out on the main street in the church parking lot by the school. The little one violently ripped my bag off my shoulder as the big one came at me with a roundhouse. That punch never connected. When it was all said and done a few seconds later, one had a broken nose, and the other had a broken arm. They left and got to school before me and tried to act like nothing had happened. I walked very slowly and cried while my scrapes stung and worried that I was going to get IT when the school found out what I had done. Turns out, my Dad had called the Vice Principal first thing in the morning to let them know what was about to drag in. I got called out of class first thing and went to the Vice Principal’s office where the other two were already waiting. They got suspended and I didn’t, because they had a reputation for this kind of thing and I didn’t, but the thing that always bothered the shit out of me was that the V.P. made me endure her yelling and carrying on and calling all three of us, “fatheads”. She threatened to suspend me, which terrified me, but she didn’t. The other two had to have someone (I don’t know who, because to this day I still have seen no evidence that these two were raised by actual people) pick them up and take them to a doctor to get patched up. I don’t really recall ever seeing either one of them much again. That day developed for me a reputation that nobody has ever bothered to challenge. Which was nice.
Damn. Sorry. Didn’t mean for that story to go on forever, but that was cathartic. As for the original question, the only thing I can say is that it is invaluable to let your kid know that you are ON THEIR SIDE. If they’re too small to defend themselves, try to find a way to circumvent a showdown. If they’re big enough and can get the job done, and all other reasonable behavior hasn’t stopped it, then teach 'em to dish it out. YMMV and all that. Experience is a fickle teacher sometimes.
grayhairedmomma, I wish you were my mother. You rawk!
I don’t know about fighting or snappy retorts, but one thing that helps a lot is making friends on the schoolbus. A bully is more likely to target a singleton. And even if a bully does sneak in a stupid comment or two, the friends will mollify the situation.
When I was in middle school, school bus bullies tried to make my life miserable. They were led by the ugliest, meanest girl in the whole school. Seriously, she looked like Jaba the Hut’s little sister. And she and her equally ugly friends were always picking on me and my sister. They had the “premium” seats in the back of the bus–relegating the rest of us to the less cool seats close to the front. If it hadn’t been for the friends we had on that bus, the two of us would have been miserable.
When we got to the eighth grade, the group of us decided we were fully entitled to the backseats. The bullies has expanded to include lowly seventh graders…and it just didn’t seem fair that they could push us out of what was rightfully ours. So we staged a sit-in. We filled the backseats before the Bullies got on the bus. They were so pissed off when they discovered us in "their"seats that they sat their fat asses in our laps, thinking they would kill us with their weight. But eventually, because they were stupid and lazy, they gave up and surrendered. We got their seats and they moved to the less cool seats. Never again were my sister and I bullied or harrassed, and we were able to enjoy the victory of defeating evil without adult intervention.
I don’t know. I think the bully would welcome the kid as a liberator.
I fought bullies. I was a little nerd with horn-rimmed glasses who looked like an easy target.
I probably was, but they didn’t see how anger affected me… until they pissed me off.
I didn’t win them all, but they all stopped after the fight.
I also didn’t fight fair: what’s fair to a bully? “Fair”, to me, was anything I could do to get my point across. And if you lost an earlobe to my teeth in the process… well, Mr Bully, you should’ve thought about “fairness” before you started teasing me.
Man it was great to have a much bigger older brother.
One solution, granted not available to all, is to put your kid in private school.
They don’t tolerate this shit one bit; the bully is usually out of there before he knows what hit him.
I think public schools should also have this policy. I feel no obligation for my tax money to educate “incorrigible bastards”.
You can do what my MIL did.
Some one was bullying my husband ( Mr. Non-Confrontation) when he was 8 or so and he came home crying. His mom took him to the bully’s house and told the other mom what was going on. That stopped that right there.
Another vote for going balistic on the bullies. I was never popular in school; I was bookish, wore braces and glasses and was generally geeky. I was teased a lot, but only from a distance after I pushed one S.O.B. down a flight of stairs a beat the crap out of another. Surprise is a great element. The bullies seldom expect smaller, weaker kids to snap, scream like demons and come at them with a will and fury to kill them if at all possible. The important thing to convey, imoh, is that you are not going to take it, even if you get hurt.
Still, things are different for boys. Girls are not often subjected to the same level of phyiscal abuse, just endless snubbing, taunting and humilation.
Well, that only works if the parents of the bully care.
I have some quotes from a couple of pieces of pop culture. First off, The Simpsons:
Homer: Son, there’s only one thing punks like that understand: squealing. You’ve got to squeal to every teacher and every grown-up you can find. Coming to me was a good start.
Bart: But then they’ll just beat me up even worse!
Homer: Yes, they are a clever bunch.
The second is from Babylon 5:
John Sheridan (quoting his father): Never start a fight, but always finish one.
Much as I’d love to provide an always-effective “no fight back” scenario to bullying, I have exactly one instance where it worked.
When my daughter started high school, her route home crossed that of a very large, very aggressive kid still in middle school. Changing routes and varying her timetable didn’t work. Anytime the other kid saw her, he went after her.
Finally we talked to the police officer assigned to the high school. The next day, as my daughter walked home, the bully actually crossed the street to get her. The officer, who was down the block watching, drove up with lights on and threatened the kid with every law he could think of. The bully never came close to my daughter again.
Now, not everyone has the advantage of a police officer looking out for them. But, like monstro suggests, having a few friends with you - even nerdy, geeky friends - may be intimidating enough to have the bully go after someone else. The next day, you can invite that victim to join you.
An earlier thread provocatively titled Ways to deal with bullying (that work).
You don’t have to run faster than the bully…just faster than the slowest of your nerdy friends! 
Seriously, that’s what you want. To bond with a bunch of social outcasts and bully magnets.
Or, a better idea is to learn to connect with people who aren’t social outcasts. As I pointed out in the thread don’t ask linked to, bullies go after people they identify as not fitting in.