Your opinion on this piece about food service professionals

[Harriet_the_Spry]

The author seems typical of many people (including myself, back in the day) who have limited life and work experience. Thus, he really sees himself only in the “waitstaff” role in these situations. It needs to be thought of as a system with management, customers, and staff–all trying to get the most for the least. Management has figured out how to get the most for the least by having staff behave (and be compensated) in a certain way. The restaurant’s bottom line is not to the advantage of the customer. Staff often find themselves in the middle of this conflict. For example, of course management will make more just nuking mass-produced Lean Cuisines with no modification. However, customers (who are certainly not encouraged to think of the kitchen as just nuking Lean Cuisines) will not appreciate having, say, no option to hold the onions. Waitstaff wind up having the awkward conversation “What do you mean, you can’t hold the onions?” Seating issues, ordering issues, timing issues, it boils down to the same thing. Management wants to have the fewest staff possible, and customers want service–which means that no, they don’t want to exercise their organizational skills to make meal service go smoothly. They want it to go smoothly, period.

Once the author has had some experience in management and as a significant consumer of services he will almost certainly see things differently.

Rants about tipping as compensation should go to restaurant management or the state legislature, not customers. If tipping is required, there are two things that could make it required: law or store policy.

[muldoonthief]

I agree, your friend needs a different job. Here are the parts I find particularly objectionable.

And, when in large parties, try not to switch seats. Sure, you can if you want to, but remember that items on a ticket are assigned to your “seat number” in the restaurant’s computer, and playing musical chairs greatly increases the chance that someone else’s drink (especially if you’ve all been ordering several rounds) might end up on your ticket.

If I’m out with a large group, it’s likely that I’ll want to speak to all/most people in the group, not just the 5 or 6 who I happen to be in audible range of. So I, and most other people, will move around. I’ll be happy to return to my own seat when the meal is served, but the rest of time, I’ll sit where I damn well please.

Substitutions and alterations are a pain in the ass. In fact, there are many people who clearly feel that they are somehow not doing their “job” as a customer if they order something (gasp!) as it actually appears on the menu. Switching shit around increases the chance of screwing something up, somewhere along the line.

I don’t care. If something on the menu looks really good, but it contains a single ingredient I don’t like, I’ll ask if it can be held. Apart from the chain places where the food was all prepared in a giant warehouse in the Midwest and shipped around the country, I’ve never had a problem with that. And if an entree comes with 2 veggies I don’t want, but I’d really like the cheapo house salad instead, I’ll ask for that substitution as well. The dining out experience is about my enjoyment, not the waitstaff’s ease.

Also, because you’re probably not our only table, please try to tell the server as a group everything you need when he or she is there. Few things are more annoying than getting something for a table, only to get back and be asked to get something else, and go and get it and get back only to be asked to get something else, and on and on ad nauseum.

Again, that’s his problem, not mine. If I realize I need tabasco sauce just as you’ve arrived with my daughter’s coke, I’ll ask for it then. Of course, a good waiter will ask “Can I get anyone else something to drink?” or “Is there anything else you’d like?” when they get a request from a table, rather than assuming that the entire table will get all their requests together before daring to bother the VERY VERY BUSY WAITER.

[SnakesCatLady]

Oh good grief - “daring to bother THE VERY VERY BUSY WAITER”. No one is asking you not to request what you need, but if you make the server make 7 or 8 trips for each item requested at your table, you are most likely depriving another table of service. There are people out there who think it is fun to run a server to death - and then stiff them on top of it. So not only did they not get a tip from the table that was so demanding but the quality of their service to their other table suffered.

I learned waitressing at a country club with very high standards - most of the private parties were “fine dining” and the main dining room was almost that strict. One of the things drilled into my head during training was efficiency of movement - do as much work as possible in as few trips to the kitchen as possible. If you are making multiple trips to one table with a single item each time you are not being efficent. Of course, for some people it is much more fun to watch the waitress run. Almost like watching rasslin’.

[Jodi]

Your friend sounds like a big ol’ whiner to me, and I speak as a former waiter. I think his post is a mixed bag of complaints that are IMO legitimate and complaints that IMO are not.

Tipping is NOT mandatory. Your friend might think that it should be, but it isn’t. Waiters get stiffed all the time. I agree that people who fail to tip for decent service are assholes of the first order, but to start the piece with YOU HAVE TO TIP ME! just strikes me wrong because you know what? No, I don’t.

To warn that crappy tipping will lead to crappy service also sounds a really wrong note with me. I have very little respect for people who would intentionally do a bad job at their profession in order to punish someone. Such behavior can only hurt your employer’s business and reputation. If I was a manager and I thought a waiter was intentionally giving bad service to anyone, I would fire that waiter immediately.

If there are open tables and people waiting, then the manager needs to adjust his coverage for the floor – add another wait to that shift or reapportion tables amongst the working wait staff so that every waiter is working to the best of their ability. I HATE standing at the door, waiting to be seated, at an obviously only half-full restaurant. I will leave and go somewhere else under those circumstances. If the wait staff really cannot handle the customer load (like a waiter called in sick, so you’ve got two waits covering a three-wait shift), then the hostess should explain, offer to seat people, and bring them beverages. (“We’re pretty short-staffed tonight. I’d be happy to seat you in Jenny’s section, but it may be a few minutes until she can get to you.”) This allows the customer to decide whether they will accept slower service, which also, not incidentally, makes them less likely to be all pissy at the waiter for being slow. I’ve worked many a short-handed shift befeore; it can be done. You just have to explain to people what the problem is and obviously be doing the best you can. But fail to seat people when there’s seats available? No way. The only exception IMO is when there are closed sections (like a Sunday afternoon shift) and people are demanding you open a section when it would obviously completely overwhelm the staff. (“No, I’m sorry, we can’t seat you back there; that section is closed. Jenny and Joe are the only staff we have working today, and they can only cover these tables up front and still give good service. We’d be happy to seat you as soon as a table opens up, though.”)

A restaurant serves food and beverages for money. Unless it is a fast-food restaurant, that food should be prepared as the customer likes it. If I don’t want tomato on my burger and prefer green beans instead of asparagus, fucking suck it up. I’m paying of the food and I am entitled to have it prepared as I like it.

All that said: Do not try to make me stand there while you read the menu to decide what to order; I won’t do it. I will give you one minute and then cheerfully say “I’ll give you a few more minutes,” before I go off to help someone else. Do not get mad at me if you’ve moved and I accidentally give you the chicken salad ordered by the woman who used to be in that seat. I don’t actually care where you sit and between us we can get it sorted out, but don’t get pissy with me about it. Whistling at me or snapping your fingers will get my attention but also a frigid smile, but no NOT fucking grab me, ever.

ETA: Multiple trips for stuff: Annoying, yeah, but part of the job. A waiter can reduce (but not eliminate) that by automatically bringing the obvious stuff (ketchup, extra napkins, drink refills) and when he or she is asked to run back for a side of ranch, ask the entire table, “Can I bring anything else for anyone?” Efficiency of movement is key to being a successful waiter, true, but an experienced waiter knows how to do things to minimize the number of trips anyway.

[Thudlow_Boink]

@muldoonthief

I agree, your friend needs a different job. Here are the parts I find particularly objectionable.

I don’t see anything at all objectionable about explaining reality: “You can do this if you want, but it makes things harder on the server and increases the likelihood that mistakes will be made.”
I liked the OP. General rule of life: Be considerate of others and don’t make things harder on them than they have to be, and things will go more smoothly and pleasantly for everyone. (See also the Golden Rule). The OP helps explain how to do this in the specific context of eating out.

[DudleyGarrett]

@Thudlow Boink

I don’t see anything at all objectionable about explaining reality: “You can do this if you want, but it makes things harder on the server and increases the likelihood that mistakes will be made.”
I liked the OP. General rule of life: Be considerate of others and don’t make things harder on them than they have to be, and things will go more smoothly and pleasantly for everyone. (See also the Golden Rule). The OP helps explain how to do this in the specific context of eating out.

I don’t see much consideration coming from the OP. I see a lot of complaining and dictating.

I work with a developer who is typically hidden from clients because his mantra is, “This would be a great job if it weren’t for these damn clients!” The OP’s rant reminds me of that.

[GorillaMan]

My advice to the OP’s friend is also to start looking for other jobs.

I’m not going near the tipping debate with a twenty foot pole, but there’s plenty else that is just ridiculous.

Knowing who is drinking what, and making sure they are charged accordingly, is part of your job. You’re serving people, not chairs. Substitutions are part of the job for you and for the kitchen, and I suspect the main reason for this being complained about is because the kitchen give the waiting staff grief about it.

And I especially like the contradictory arguments that:

(1) shifting tables around means a waiter will lose out on income when tables are moved out of his section

(2) some of the tables will nonetheless remain empty, because poor little Earl can’t cope with serving three groups at once.

we will usually try to accommodate you and your requests - that’s how we make money

Clearly Earl omitted “Even though I failed to say ‘will always make every effort to accommodate you’, you should still always give us lots of money”.

Damn, I’ve ended up on tipping anyway.
(Yes, I’ve in the past been the waiter dealing with all Earl’s complaints (except the 15%!), and dealt with them all as a part of my job)

[Spoons]

@muldoonthief

The dining out experience is about my enjoyment, not the waitstaff’s ease.

This says it all, IMHO. It’s about the guest, not the waiter.

We all have, no doubt, great rants we could write about our various workplaces that involve customers and their dealings with house procedures or our workplace’s physical layout. Talking them out with a friend or writing them out can provide a sense of relief–this is probably how your friend feels after writing this. And it seems natural, in such a document, to vent about the guests who stand out by wanting things that aren’t on the menu, or are prepared in a non-standard way.

But so far, all that’s being done is in private. If your friend follows through with his plans “to distribute by e-mail or flyer,” then I think I, as a potential guest in a restaurant, would be somewhat insulted. He’s telling me how to behave to make his job easier? Well, I have to admit that I’ve never gone out for a meal for the express purpose of making the server’s job easier. Nor have I bought something at retail to make the salesperson’s job easier, or spent money on courses to make the instructor’s job easier. No, I take courses, buy things, and eat out for my benefit, not anybody else’s. Certainly I, as a guest, try not to make the server’s job harder than it needs to be, but as muldoonthief says, “It’s about the guest, not the waiter.” Meeting the guest’s needs, if at all possible, is the server’s job.

Of course, there are certain standards of behaviour that should be expected of guests–no bothering other patrons, no expecting things that cannot reasonably be inferred (for example, “Why aren’t there 14 different kinds of steaks in this seafood restaurant?”), no interrupting servers who are speaking with or serving other tables, and no inappropriate behaviour (for example, no urinating in the middle of the room). Everything else can be met with a reasonable attempt to accommodate the guest’s request–with apologies if it cannot be, because it will sometimes be impossible.

But unless your friend is prepared to say things like, “I’ll see if the bartender can do that,” or “I’m sorry sir, but we don’t have _____; would you like something else?” or “Oh, you’ve moved two tables together–I’ll have to let the hostess know,” then perhaps he needs to find another line of work. There are many, many jobs that do not involve any customer interaction at all.

[D_Odds]

While I agree with some of the writer’s points in the abstract, his method of delivery falls short of anything other than ‘yet-another-customer-rant’.

If you are relaying feedback, you may request he reword. For example:

TIPPING: A 15% tip is customary when dining out. For a 15% tip, you should expect prompt, friendly service, and a satisfying meal up to the qualities of that particular dining establishment. Should you not receive this service and feel it is necessary to reduce the tip, please tell the server (if it is food or atmosphere related) and/or the management. Leaving no tip does not send a message to the server other than “I am cheap”. Leaving no tip and telling management why you left no tip will likely improve your next outing at that establishment, or if you have no plans to return, improve the outings of future diners.

[Maastricht]

@Shagnasty

…aggressive and rude customers (who are usually female BTW. Just figure I would throw that in for context, truth, and outrage potential)…

You’d be agressive too, if you saw some pretentious arrogant guy, charging money for what you do every day, for free. And better.

[vetbridge]

@Sampiro

And it’s rarely the server’s fault if the food is slow or not cooked to your satisfaction. It’s the fault of the kitchen staff/cook usually (usually from being too busy rather than incompetent) which, while not the customer’s fault, also isn’t the server’s.

Ahhhh, but if the food is extraordinary, yet the service only fair, is it OK if I leave the server a buck and the kitchen 20? Sorry, I’m a very good tipper, but I really don’t care who is at fault. If my meal was an unpleasant one, I still have to pay the check, but the tip suffers and I won’t be back.

[bouv]

As a current kitchen staff employee, I’ll weigh in on some things that have been said.

Regarding substitutions/changes: sometimes it can be done, sometimes it can’t. It depends on the dish. For instance, where I work, we have a chicken dish that gets covered in sauteed onions, peppers, and shrimp, then some kind of sauce and some cheese. Often, people ask for one of the items (onions, shrimp, peppers, sauce, or cheese) to be omitted. Well, we can easily not plop on the sauce and cheese, but it’s very hard to remove the onions, peppers,or shrimp because they are all together. That’s not to say its some pre-packaged schlop, cause it’ s not. Earlier in the day, a prep cook sauteed a shitload of onions, peppers, and shrimp all together and then portion ed them out. We then re-heat them and put them on the chicken, which was actually cooked on the grill when you ordered it. Sure, we could just pick out the onions from the portion container, but the thing is, they were cooked with the other stuff and have been sitting with them for hours, so the shrimp and peppers will still taste like onions, so what’s the point? nd don’t get pissy if we can’t make every change you ask for. Want fried shrimp instead of grilled? Sure. Want fried shrimp instead of fried? Umm…well, ok, but you’re going to get, like, three shrimp, so don’t complain. Want a cheesecake instead of fries? No, sorry, not happening. It’s clear that sometimes people try to “cheat the system” by substituting something that costs more. Someone actually ordered a chicken salad (costs like $12 at dinner, I think,) but wanted to substitute a half rack of ribs instead of a piece of chicken (a half rack of ribs costs around $18.) We did it, but then he complained that he was charged more (it wasn’t the price of the whole half-rack, since that comes with a couple side items, but it was like $14 or $15, I think.)

Re: food orders mixed up: Yes, most of the time, it is the kitchen’s fault. Sometimes the servers forget to write it on the ticket, but usually we mess up, But you know what? When you’ve cooked Dish A several hundred times, and someone comes in and makes some weird request, I think it’s a bit understandable that we might forget. Making some of these things becomes habit. It’s also really hard to keep track of thirty-odd pieces of food (where I work, mostly steaks) on a grill and remember each ones temp, and that this one is no seasoning, this one extra seasoning, that one has a shell-fish allergy so cook on this part of the grill, etc…How many times have you accidentally over/undercooked your own steak? One in ten? One in twenty? Hell, even if it’s one in one hundred times, that still equates to at least seven or eight steaks a day that will not be cooked right for our grill cook.

[muldoonthief]

@Thudlow Boink

I don’t see anything at all objectionable about explaining reality: “You can do this if you want, but it makes things harder on the server and increases the likelihood that mistakes will be made.”
I liked the OP. General rule of life: Be considerate of others and don’t make things harder on them than they have to be, and things will go more smoothly and pleasantly for everyone. (See also the Golden Rule). The OP helps explain how to do this in the specific context of eating out.

I don’t want to make things harder on the waiter. I want to have an enjoyable dining experience, with tasty, well-prepared food, and pleasant conversation with the entire group I’m dining with. If achieving that goal makes things harder on the waiter, well, that’s his job. If a restaurant wants to impose a “no substitutions, no changing assigned seats, no asking for more than 3 additional items during the meal” rule, they’re free to do so, but I’m betting they wouldn’t last very long.

Having said that, I fully understand that if I’m not in the same seat I was when I ordered, I may be given a meal or drink I didn’t order, or that the broccoli rabe might be prepared as part of the dish I ordered so I can’t hold it and get a salad instead. I’m not going to reduce a tip or yell at the server because of that. But his attitude that I’m a “jackass” or a “hillbilly” for expecting those things to go the way I want them to is ridiculous.

Sampiro, if this does get published via email or flyer(!), please tell your friend to make sure to polish off all the fingerprints. If this gets tied to the restaurant he works at and the owners find out about it, it’s for pretty damn sure he’s never working there again.

[Max_Torque]

I darn near gave up reading after the second “tipping” paragraph. It seems from your intro like he wants to explain that there are actual reasons why moving tables is such an ordeal and why you don’t get seated right away when there are empty tables. So, it’s all about understanding that waiting tables is hard. That being the case, leading off with a four-paragraph rant about how tipping is mandatory and y’all reading this are a bunch of cheap bastards who don’t give me enough free money doesn’t exactly put the reader in a frame of mind to accept whatever comes next.

[Sampiro]

Having never been a full-time server (my serving experience would equal about two non-consecutive weeks so I don’t count it) but having worked in front-line customer service for years and having had a lot of bad restaurant experiences over the years (speaking of IHOP there’s a rule of thumb: either the food or the service will be okay, but not both) I see both viewpoints. (I must say in defense of my friend that the above is not representative- it was written when he was frustrated and he’s actually one of the nicest and most accomodating guys you’d ever want to meet and an excellent server [who only works as a server every other weekend now for extra money]- if you know him only from that I can see why you’d think he was bitter and bitchy but he’s not at all.)

I think his most valid points are the explanatory ones:

-what a hostess does re: traffic flow- many people don’t know this and I myself have gotten irked when I had to wait for a table and there’s plenty of seats, but it makes sense when you realize that if you’re seated in that section you’ll leave later than if you wait 5 minutes for the other section

-how inconvenient it is pushing tables together without permission- you’re affecting people’s incomes by doing that (and the above was written after he politely explained to somebody this principal and they responded “We don’t care”- don’t screw with people’s livelihoods)

I think he overstated the case on the substitutions. He’s not against them in and of themselves- we all ask for “hold this” or “change that” from time to time- it’s just that many are a lot easier to do than others and some customers won’t hear it when, to use bouv’s example, “we can’t take out just the mushrooms- or if we can you’ll still taste them”, and there really are people who want to order a hamburger and fries, modify and substitute it until it’s a prime rib dinner, but want to be charged for hamburger and fries. It’s really only these people, not the ones who just don’t want the cheese sauce, that I think he has a problem with, and even then it’s the ones who won’t take no for an answer.

I completely agree with him that tipping’s a part of dining out and that unless the service is bad the server should be tipped. Paying your bill but stiffing a server who gave good service is the reverse of what should be done- the restaurant doesn’t particularly give a damn if you’re not coming back as long as you’ve paid your tab and a popular place is really hard to dent the business of so they don’t suffer, while the server, who is innocent and can’t afford to take the loss, is fined for something that isn’t there fault. Better to see the manager and have the meal gratted or reduced than to not tip.

@A.R. Cane

Most servers, who work in a decent establishment, make considerably more than they would at a fixed wage job and most of them cheat the taxman.

I have to admit this one majorly strikes home. For years I worked in busy hotels that had restaurants. On nights when we were absolutely slammed and never had a chance to take so much as a bathroom break and then when shift was over there were still people checking in and we had the choice of
1- walking out the door and punching out and completely abandoning incoming shiftworkers (which in addition to being uncaring also assures they’re going to do the same to you when positions are reversed and they will be [though admittedly some would anyway] and also assures a next-day nightmare when the incoming shift was too busy to log in the wake-up calls and you couldn’t find where that $58 overage came from so the guy who paid cash is going to understandably raise hell when he’s charged again at checkout)
or
2- staying for 2 additional hours to get your paperwork and catch-up done and leaving the invasion more managable like a dedicated employee but then catching hell from corporate beancounters and big-wigs, who have not a clue what goes on at the front desk, don’t particularly care to learn, and will not see that the 2 hours of overtime cost the company $20 but saved them hundreds in rooms that would have to be comped (never understood this one and still don’t)
or
3- (and I did this a few times I have to admit) clocking out and then coming back and working 2 hours gratis to catch up and help out (usually because you particularly liked the person who relieved you) and then feeling murderous when you’re never recognized by your employer who thinks nothing of cutting hours at the drop of a hat

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but on these same hell-nights the restaurant also caught hell usually and the servers left with ragged nerves and crumpled ties. BUT- the big difference was the servers left with a big wad of cash because that hell night netted them $200 more than they’d usually earn (and the bartenders more than that) while the desk staff made the same (next to nothing) hourly wages for a hell-night that they’d make for a “bring a book and your homework” dead Sunday holiday night. Plus, as A.R. observed, of that $200 surplus they’re taking home in tips, they might report $20 of it while hourly wage pittances were fully taxed. I wasn’t feeling too sorry for them.

Earl likes The Vortex’s rules and regulations and wants to craft something like that. They offend some and amuse others with the bluntness. (The Vortex is a “biker bar” in Atlanta, but this is ‘biker’ as in button-down accountant M-F and weekend biker type, not Smokey & the Bandit truckstop variety.
I think he gave it to me to shorten and “pithify” it, but I doubt I will.

[Sampiro]

PS- to access the Vortex pages I was reffering to, click Rules at the top and then Stuff You Should Know/Bar Etiquette*/Idiot Free Zone/86 Policy links from the dropdown.

Example from that site:

An 18% gratuity may be added to your check if you are a party of 6 or more. If you think that tipping is a scam then buy yourself a TV dinner, stay home and watch wrestling. Tipping is how our servers and bartenders make their living. If you ever feel that you have received substandard service please notify the Manager on Duty because we really want to know if a server sucks.

*Bar Etiquette- sounds like a good name for a gay dude ranch.

[Ludovic]

@Sampiro

when, to use bouv’s example, “we can’t take out just the mushrooms- or if we can you’ll still taste them”

[total hijack]is that the case with mushrooms, specifically? I hate eating mushrooms but it seems that when I get a dish with a mushroom-containing sauce it adds a flavor to it even when I pick out the mushrooms. The odd thing is, I like the purported extra flavor.

But I could just be imagining things. Does mushrooms really add a flavor to the meal in general?[/total hijack]

[Sampiro]

@Ludovic

[total hijack]is that the case with mushrooms, specifically? I hate eating mushrooms but it seems that when I get a dish with a mushroom-containing sauce it adds a flavor to it even when I pick out the mushrooms. The odd thing is, I like the purported extra flavor.

But I could just be imagining things. Does mushrooms really add a flavor to the meal in general?[/total hijack]

No, I was just using mushrooms as an example. I’m similar with oysters though- I love oyster dressing and oyster stew but I can’t eat the nasty little buggers by themselves. I like the flavor but the snot-like texture grosses me out.

[GorillaMan]

@Ludovic

[total hijack]is that the case with mushrooms, specifically? I hate eating mushrooms but it seems that when I get a dish with a mushroom-containing sauce it adds a flavor to it even when I pick out the mushrooms. The odd thing is, I like the purported extra flavor.

But I could just be imagining things. Does mushrooms really add a flavor to the meal in general?[/total hijack]

[joins the hijack]I’m with you on mushrooms. And olives. Love the flavour, hate the texture. Same with prawns. I adore oysters, though.[/leaves the hijack]

[TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW]

I knew that this post was doomed, because I’ve never seen such naked, unmasked hostility toward those in service professions as I have here on the SDMB. There’s a true hatred and resentment of people in service positions on this board, which is funny considering how liberal it skews. It’s like a weird reversal of the prosperity Gospel concept - “those filthy people must DESERVE to be waiters, so we’re going to treat them like human garbage.”

Posters who can’t handle hearing these complaints are the same types of people who believed in happiness in slavery and didn’t understand when they slaves didn’t “know their place.”

I completely agree with everything that your friend wrote.