This snowy morning my wife and I took a walk thru a local forest preserve, w/ our dog on a leash. One guy was biking on a bike w/ those fat tires. He had 2 hunting dogs (pointer types) running along him off leash. One of the dogs was quite a bit ahead of him - we first noticed them when the lead dog came up right behind our leashed dog, and only then saw the biker maybe 50 yards behind. Then, well after they passed and were out of sight, a second dog came trotting along. They did the loop at least a couple of times, and I saw the trailing dog poop at least once right next to the trail (not picked up or kicked into the woods, of course!)
The dogs were pretty well behaved, but it really impressed me as an impressive rejection of clear societal norms (and laws!) I know some people who have an irrational fear of dogs who wouldv’e been terrified by this. And it added a challenge to our efforts to train our young dog to walk well on leash.
No, not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but just made me wonder what instances you’ve encountered of people just acting as tho societal rules/norms didn’t apply to them. Maybe the folk who toss a whole bag of garbage out their car window or something.
Or, let me know if you think I’m entirely off-base for thinking this rude. What do you do in such instances? The first time he passed, he called out, “Sorry!” My wife responded something like, “Apparently you aren’t!” The 3d time he came up behind us, I clearly said, “That is so exceptionally rude!” So, do you say/do anything? Or just let it go.
Do YOU act in any ways clearly contrary to what you know is the law/accepted norm?
And please refrain from Covid-related mask violations and such.
Maybe your idea of a forest preserve and mine are a bit different- I’m imagining a piece of barely tamed wilderness where your likelihood of running into someone else is low, and having your dogs unleashed if they’re well enough trained isn’t a problem.
Now if it’s a city park with more than the usual number of trees, then that’s different. Or if it’s somewhere with a lot of people and dogs, and you’re the only jerk with unleashed dogs, then that’s different too. Or of course if there are clearly posted rules prohibiting unleashed dogs.
I’m not so sure people irrationally fearful of dogs should be a real concern- you can’t run your life based on other people’s irrational fears, especially in the first case where your likelihood to run into anyone is low. Same for other people’s dogs in that case. In the more city park like case, then yeah, they should be on leashes.
The poop is the real issue there- even in the less populated forest preserve, people’s dogs shouldn’t be free to drop a deuce wherever they desire.
Here in the Chicago area, forest preserves are somewhere between the 2 examples you give. No such thing as “barely tamed wilderness” anywhere within several hours.
The Cook and DuPage county preserves get A LOT of traffic. Many of them have pavillions and such built by the CCC back in the 30s or so. [url=York Woods]
This one[url] has a paved bike/jog/walk path - maybe 1.5 mi loop. If you make a point of going on off hours (as we tend to), you will likely meet few folk (if any). But you could run into a big family picnic or such going on. Dog rules are clearly posted.
There are plenty of trash receptacles w/in 1/2 mile. If everyone’s dog just pooped right next to the path, it would get awfully nasty awfully quickly.
I happen to love dogs. But the people who irrationally fear dogs have as much right to use the place as I.
What was he apologizing for? Passing you on the left, right? Not announcing his presence, the unleashed dogs? The poop? 3 times he violated what societal norm? What was so exceptionally rude? The dogs didn’t mess with your dog did it?
Some places require dogs on leashes. Some don’t. If the dogs were well behaved and under voice control, the only real issue is the poop and that’s going to be true anywhere that allows off leash dogs.
Biking with dogs on leash is pretty difficult, so if there are bikers with dogs, they’re most likely going to be off leash.
The fact that his dogs didn’t do anything exceptionally bad misses the point of a leash rule. And 50 yards in front and behind, and running right up to people or dogs is not under control.
I used to have a dog that was leash reactive. That means she would make a big show show of aggression to other dogs when she was on a leash. (It comes from fear, not from wanting to hurt other dogs. She never hurt another dog, even when she was being attacked). We liked taking her on hikes and to parks that had leash rules because we could control how close she came to other dogs, and either avoid any interaction or control it by doing certain things that helped.
Having an unleashed dog run up to her while she was on a leash was a huge deal to her, and by extension, to us. It became too stressful to manage, and when it scared the other dog’s owner, we were always blamed for having the out of control dog (which she wasn’t, because she was on a leash.) Even though we had every right to not have unleashed dogs run up to her.
Likewise, a person who is scared of dogs has a right to not have a dog run up to them in an area with a leash rule/law.
It is always refreshing to post something I think blindingly obvious, only to learn that others feel quite differently.
I’ve had dogs my entire adult life. In my 20s-early 30s, I NEVER used a leash. As the dogs and decades passed, I’ve increasingly appreciated the extent to which I share common areas with others, and I often adapt my personal preference as a courtesy to others.
My last dog did not like other dogs. So a friendly dog coming up to him was very unwelcome. My current dog is still in training. Having an unleashed dog in your dog’s but w/ no word from the owner is an unwelcome surprise, and does not enhance the enjoyment of my walk. Then having another unleashed dog come along after the biker and 1st dog are out of sight, raises all manner of concerns. Is the dog friendly? How will my dog react?
I think it rude for the other person to force such concerns on me, solely because he prefers to apparently prefers to exercise his dogs in this manner. If he wished, I’m sure he could find some dog parks to run the dogs unleashed, or he could go to less travelled areas than a shared hiking/biking path, or he could take them out earlier in the morning or later in the evening, when fewer other people are out.
We’ve walked this path very frequently over the past 5 years - at least once a week in all kinds of weather. It is exceedingly rare to encounter a dog off leash, and I have never encountered a biker with dogs there - either leashed or not.
I don’t know. You tell me. The common comment when passing in “On your left,” not “Sorry.” I took it as an acknowledgement that he knew he was doing something he oughtn’t and which others would likely not appreciate. But it wasn’t going to stop him from acting as he wanted. Impressed me as insincere - not a real apology.
What about that silly rule about not parking in a fire lane? After all, I just need to run into the store for a few things - why should I have to hike from a designated parking space when there’s all this free area sitting here?
Or that silly notion that one should control one’s kids in public? My little angel should be free to explore as he wishes. Why should your desire for a nice dinner in a restaurant mean that he can’t run laps around the tables? The very idea!!!
I think maybe what you’re trying to say is - people who are afraid of unknown dogs that their owners know are not dangerous. That’s not irrational.
Yup, this is the problem. Maybe you know your dog is harmless, but some dogs are not. If a dog is off its leash that’s fine, provided it’s in sight of the owner and immediately obeying the owner’s voice commands. But you don’t have a right to let an unleashed and out of control dog charge up to people or other dogs, any more than a human being has a right to charge up to someone in a possibly threatening manner. The standard is not actual harm. The definition of assault is the apparent threat of harm, and that applies to dogs too. In the heat of the moment, if a dog charges around the trail ahead of you, it’s impossible to discern if it’s a happy dog that wants to make friends or an aggressive dog that’s going to attack you (or your own dog). Nobody should be put through the anxiety of a dog charging up to them, just because the owner knows it’s actually harmless.
Usually the driver remains in the vehicle with what I term a “sheepish defiant” look on their face. They know they are in the wrong, but they are still gonna do it dammit!
If the driver remains in the vehicle ready to move if they need to, it’s not wrong. Or at least, it’s not wrong to stop by a fire hydrant, I think the same applies to a fire lane unless it’s explicitly posted no stopping.
No - I was thinking about my BIL. The guy is terrified of all dogs - even the nicest puppy he is familiar with. He’s a terribly nice guy - just has an irrational fear. Not something he does intentionally.
A lot of people fear dogs. A minority of all people, but they are out there.
Then there is the larger group of people such as you describe.
My 9 lb poodle mix was killed by an off leash dog on Christmas eve, in front of my 9 year old. We were getting out of the car at a playground (that connects to a Nature Preserve–@bump, Foxboro Park, which is part of the Spring Creek Nature Preserve). Anyway, this TINY pitbull, the tiniest pit bull you ever saw, not even knee height, ran up. She had a collar on–a seasonal collar, snowmen–and was clearly clean and well-fed. I had my hands full getting stuff out of the car, my son was holding my dog on a leash. She’s utterly friendly, sniffing us. I am warning him to get back, strange dog, but not super worried. Then she went for my pup’s throat. No threat display, no growling. It was like a dog killing a cat, not a dog fight. I tried to get my dog away (stupid) but I couldn’t. She was tiny, but solid muscle and utterly implacable. Never was aggressive toward us, but I still ended up bit. After a couple rounds of me getting pup away and she grabbing him back, my son sobbing, me helpless, we got the pup in the car, but he died before we got to the vet.
Dog got away, so I got to spend Christmas Eve getting rabies shots in the ER. Found the dog the next week. She’s been recently adopted from another shelter. I was able to stop shots, but I am probably going to be out several thousand dollars for the ER visit–that’s my deductible. And it was not a fun time for my kid. Plus, the dog we lost was only 5 and a really good dog. This was a week ago, so we are all pretty raw.
So yeah. I’m not dog phobic, but I’m not about to trust your off-leash dog no matter how innocuous it looks. A dog doesn’t have to be big to fuck you up, it just has to be willing. Next dog leash will have pepper spray attached next to the poop bags. Leash your fucking dogs in city limits.
No, off leash dogs were not permitted. I talked to a lawyer: the shelter can’t give me the names but we can file an open records request and IF they have insurance I might get some of it covered. It’s not an impossible amount for us or anything–this is why we have savings, right?–but it would be nice to get some of it. We will see.
I delivered mail one summer when I was in college, and got attacked by dogs twice. Never got me, one got my pants leg though before I maced it. The owner came running up and said that the dog never did that. Right.
One person in my office got badly bitten. Federal crime, you know.
As for the OP, before the lockdown people would get fast food and eat it in their cars by our local park - and then dump the bags on the street. The trash can was all of 100 feet away. But I never saw anyone in the process of doing this, so it doesn’t really qualify.
I love dogs. But this is why it drives me crazy when people walk their dogs off-leash in places where it’s not allowed or appropriate. The dog takes off like a rocket and ignores the owner who is standing there screaming, “Fido, get back here!”
I live in a condo complex that’s next to a park. I like to sit in this park and read on warm summer days. There’s a guy who walks his huge dog off-leash there all the goddamn time. The first time, the dog charged up to me, barking furiously like he wanted to rip me to pieces. I held out my hand and the dog sniffed it and decided I was okay. Now, when that dog spots me, he comes charging over to hang out with his new buddy erysichthon. Either way, the behavior is indistinguishable from aggression and would be terrifying to anyone who doesn’t know the dog.
Not to mention that these dogs are pooping everywhere and the owners are either leaving it, or bagging it and dropping the bag somewhere else.