Writing as a means of creative expression?
I don’t think that I’m going too far into controversial territory to state that creative writing is to be counted among the arts. I believe there have even been a few respected universities that have gone so far as to offer studies of literature and poetry.
And much of it is bad.
I think the general consensus would be that a Physics textbook is not art, though it is writing.
You bet! No training, talent or dedication is needed.
Everyone’s an artist!
Does everyone feel the need to express themselves through art? I know very many people who don’t. Therefore, I feel comfortable saying that not everyone is an artist.
Many great artists have had no formal training and very many horrible artists have had no training. So, yes, no training is required.
Definitely not a requirement.
It will almost always be a requirement to be a professional artist. But a sad failure crappy artist? Nope. No talent required.
I’d say some dedication is required. The definition I offered, as you quoted, was:
“All it really requires is the drive to creatively express oneself through art with some kind of follow through.”
Note that dedication is no guarantee that a particular artist will ever be any good.
How about message board posts?
I mean, everyone here uses writing to express themselves. Are we all artists?
And if so, what about Facebook? Or Twitter?
I suspected that was what you were getting at.
I’m happy to help you navigate all the grey areas but I can’t devote myself to a detailed response right now, I’ll have to step away from the computer after typing this and won’t be back until later in the day.
Just as a start, I already said not all writing is art. I’ll follow that expressing oneself does not always meet my definition that being an artist is to “creatively express oneself through art with some kind of follow through.”
When I order a burrito at Pedro’s I am expressing myself but I am not creatively expressing myself through art.
Details to follow!
This reminds me of something that I think is related, rather than completely off-topic. In an early season of American Idol, the ever-polite Simon Cowell sharply commented on a youngish woman’s singing, to the effect that he doubted whether she had actually gotten a single note right in her performance. She quickly replied that she wasn’t trying to get the notes right.
I had a hard time trying to understand what was going on in her head.
I really don’t understand the idea about being upset over unwelcomed criticism . I certainly understand not necessarily wanting negative criticism and that it can, at times, be an unpleasant blow when something one is reasonably proud of is poorly received; however, that’s part of what goes with displaying or performing a piece to an audience. What’s the point of sharing one’s art but then not being open to the responses of the audience? The arts are supposed to be a form of expression, they’re supposed to evoke responses from the audience. Sure, if it gets to unintended audience, I can see not being receptive, they may be missing important context, or it may just be too personal for them to relate or to want to share with them; hell, sometimes I create pieces that are never intended to be shared with anyone.
But really, why put a piece out in a place where the audience is the general public if you’re not in a place to deal with however they may response? Sure, I get being upset if they’re not giving honest criticism and just being mean, but for me, it’s just as bad to have someone blow smoke up my ass about how great a piece is just to make me feel good. From my audience, I want an honest critique. And, like I said above, if I realize someone is being mean, or I’m not in a place to receive a negative criticism, or I think their criticism is wrong, I ignore it and move on.
An excellent question and the answer determines whether the OP is right or an arse 
O.K., I’m back.
To repeat what I said upthread:
Not all writing is art.
Expressing oneself can be done in many ways. Expressing oneself through art is only one manner of self expression. When I order a burrito at Pedro’s I am expressing myself but I am not creatively expressing myself through art.
If not all manners of expressing oneself are art, and not all writing is art, then not all writing to express oneself equals creatively expressing oneself through art.
Messageboard posts are easily analogous to in person verbal conversations. Even the long ranty OPs tend to be more like op-ed letters. Could a person make a messageboard post that stands on it’s own as an artistically composed essay? Pointed satire? Sure, hypothetically. I’d suggest that as a piece of art it would have to be able to stand on it’s own, otherwise it’s just a grand overture to start the ball rolling on a new topic of conversation.
Facebook and Twitter? Sure it’s possible but that possibility hardly makes every tweet a work of art and every Twit an artist.
When Stephen Colbert tweets “tune in to the show tonight and watch my interview with Congressman Harry!” he isn’t creating art, he’s just conveying information, but when he tweets “In honor of oil-soaked birds, ‘tweets’ are now ‘gurgles.’” I’d consider that art.
For the most part people are just conveying information. Some creative writers do use their accounts for creative expression- particularly many comedians. I do consider stand-up comedy to be art and joke writing to be art, but making a witty remark on Twitter makes a person an artist no more than making a witty remark in conversation.
But all this is beside the point anyway. I was never asserting a definition of art. Art is varied and vague and multifaceted and contradictory. An attempt at a working definition would be an exercise in tedium, as I believe I have displayed.
No, I was never asserting a definition of art. I objected to the dismissive pejorative of “wannabe artist”. I asserted that to be an artist, all it really requires is the drive to creatively express oneself through art with some kind of follow through.
Not only did I not define art, I didn’t define artist- I just laid out the very minimal qualifications for one to legitimately be called an artist. If I were to lay out the qualifications to be a brain surgeon, that wouldn’t be the same thing as defining “brain surgeon”.
I asserted that the bar is set very low for a person to identify as an artist.
For a brain surgeon, the bar is set very high. If you need to have brain surgery and someone tells you he is a brain surgeon, though he has not gone to medical school and has never practiced medicine nor performed surgery in a licensed medical facility, he just works out of his basement and has his own style, then you would be well justified to say to him “Sorry, I’m going to go to a real brain surgeon.”
To stand and be counted as an artist, the bar is set very very low. The term “wannabe artist” is just name-calling. It’s about feeling superior by putting down those who one does not like. And, again, it completely misses the point. Saying someone is a wannabe artist because their work sucks belays the erroneous supposition that all art is good. All art is not good. Vast amounts of art are absolutely horrible. The artists making this crappy art are the artists the OP wants to call wannabes. They’re not wannabes. They’re artists. And they suck.
As the focus of my contribution to this Thread has been about self identifying, I can simplify my response to your challenge of whether or not all contributors to a messageboard are artists, whether all Facebook posts and Tweets are art: In the great majority of cases, NO. An easy “no” because the people writing in those fora do not (in the great majority of cases) identify their entries to be art.
In the cases when someone does assert that their entry is indeed art, feel free to engage in a spirited debate about “what is art?” but there’s really no point in insisting that the person is not an artist. The bar for identifying as an artist is very very low.
To quote Tim from Brainspace:
Wait, you ARE talking about DeviantArt? Well fuck me running. I was all set to jump on board with this rant after multiple experiences with web design and marketing vendors who churn out dogshit and defend it with buzzwords and petulance, from whom extracting quality work is like pulling teeth out of a coked-up grizzly with a hedgehog up his ass coated in Ben-Gay. If you’re producing creative work on a professional basis, you’d best not deliver an eighth-grader’s MS Paint class project, and if you do, then at least handle the ensuing client smackdown with dignity.
But DeviantArt? For Christ’s sake, the place is half or more comprised of bored and/or starry-eyed teenagers drawing My Little Ponies for sixteen cents each. One of the primary charms of the site is it’s one of the few venues on the internet where creators of any experience level can share, practice, learn, and express themselves with a better-than-decent chance that no self-righteous fignuts will butt in to contribute “Excuse me, no offense, and I’m just being helpful, but you suck and I’m better than you and here’s why. Have a nice day! :)”
Just to give an example — I personally can’t draw for shit and, as a general rule, I don’t try. The other weekend, a friend brought his Wacom over, so I decided to screw around with it, and ended up drawing this VT student. It sucks, and I know it sucks, but I posted it to my DA account anyway, because what the hell. But I never in a million years would’ve done that if the DA culture didn’t generally prevent the usual slew of “helpful souls” from popping in to tell me oh-so-faux-politely to not quit my day job, as if I couldn’t plainly see the dozens of people on any given page refresh that were better artists than I or anyone I know could ever dream of being (and as if I cared). Couldn’t possibly be arsed to deal with it. And I’m a cynical smartass in my late 20s. Does anyone really think 15-year-old Filipina ~xXxNekoChan<3KawaiixXx gains anything from those types of comments? You think her ultimate goal is to become the leader of a nouveau-animé artistic movement that will define modern high culture for the next century or more? Or do you think she just learns that people are jerks, and that she probably ought to keep that whole “drawing” thing to herself?
Not every place on the internet needs to be 100% huggles and love and unconditional support. (Lord knows I wouldn’t want the SDMB to be all MPSIMS all the time.) But DeviantArt, apart from a few select corners, is such a place, and has firmly established itself as such. When the saccharine level hits nauseous-to-cancer-inducing — about 30 minutes for me, but YMMV — then step away, head here, read a Pit thread, and get back to reality…but let people be nice to each other if it makes them happy.
Now, if you’re dealing with professional artists (and there are some who ply their wares on DA), or people who’ve openly asked for advice, then I retract the above rant, or at least withdraw it for future deployment at a more appropriate target. But if you’re popping into random people’s galleries with “constructive criticism,” then just a suggestion, and I offer it in the spirit of friendship and helping you to improve as a poster of comments, because I’ve been through that know-it-all period and believe me I know how hard it is for a developing commenter such as yourself to unlearn those bad habits, so take a lesson from my mistakes and take this with all of the love that’s intended: piss off. Thxxxx!!! :3 :iconhappyfacehugz:
